and then you're right, we may never be able to determine that, but we have determined the fact that he tampered with the tape in the sense that he abruptly, mid conversation, turned it off. >> reporter: now the cohen camp is responding by mocking giuliani. a source close to michael cohen said this to our colleague jake tapper. you mean rudy is floating wild speculation as if he were unhinged? obviously, it's a lie. shocking. trump has largely invoicing speaking out on the cohen controversy and instead he is touting academic growth figures and unveiling his plans to campaign extensively for republicans in the fall. then he have to answer the questions about his lawyer when he meets face-to-face with the italian prime minister tomorrow at the white house and perhaps see him address this controversy