might have known. there's a lot of additional context here that would suggest that, you know, that trump is likely lying. i do think it's a little window into why the trump legal team is so incredibly afraid of him sitting down and having this interview with robert mueller. they really do appear to be afraid that trump is going to lie and that robert mueller. >> folks who lie to these investigators have faced jail time. joey jackson, you've been involved in a lot of legal proceedings here. it is not uncommon to have witnesses that aren't boy scouts, right? or who have problems in their past or problems with credibility. does that take away the value of their testimony in a case like this? >> not necessarily. and piggybacking off of and turning in another direction to what susan was saying, you certainly have to look at everything in context, but it happens every day and twice on sunday. we have to let viewers know in cases across the country, every day there rarely is a smoking gun. very rarely is there a smoking gun. what judges do is give a jury a