somebody who just straight out lies about his own position and about your position and that gets his poents on the defensive pretty much all the time. >> i want to close where we started. how worried should we be? a lot of people worried we're witnessing the end of the american led post world war ii order. >> i think we should be worried. when people like donald trump say to the population, what the hell have you got to lose. peace, prosperity and security is a hell of a lot. i think the main challenge is, u.s. leadership but binding the new powers in the world, particularly china, into that global order. >> hard to do if you don't believe in it yourself. >> make president xi and the chinese government feel it has stake in the united nations and the world trading organization.