traumatizing. our zjeff zeleny asked straight up, is this child abuse? >> how could this not be child abuse, for the people who are taken from their parents? not the ones who are sent here with their parents' blessing with the smugglers, the people who are taken from their parents? >> unfortunately, i'm not in any position to deal with, you know, hearsay stories. if someone has a specific allegation, as i always do when i testify, i ask that they provide that information to the department of homeland security. we will look into it. of course we do not want any situation where a child is not completely adequately taken care of. >> again, not in any position to deal with hearsay. even if she couldn't answer some of the simple questions that the trump administration knew would come at this briefing, could nielsen admit that the president could be using this issue as leverage in his immigration fight? >> madam secretary, can you definitively say, are athe children being used as pawns for a border wall? >> the children are not being