any collusion argument, we don't know if at all. back to cohen. so why are trump folk worried that he might flip? >> well, i mean, they're putting a lot of pressure on him. first of all, look, michael is, to me, a tragic figure. you know, i was attacked by the president. you and maggie haberman on for this interview. i said to her on the record when anybody else complains to me, i'm a guy who saw donald trump speaking at cpac in 2011, and i just knew this guy can get elected president. there was something about him. there's just, he had the walk, the same way obama had the walk in 2004. he's a star. and michael believed -- there are only two people in the trump inner circle who not only believed donald trump was going to win the gop primary but was going to win the presidency. and it was 100% that he was going to win. you know who they were? michael cohen and our first lady. the only te i kn. i was very worried. ought we had a good chance to win the primary. >> michael cohen's devotion and loyalty to trump has been 100%, but has it been returned? >> absolutely not.