that the fault of the parents that are making that terrible mistake and decision to do that. >> but you're discounting the desperation, steve. why did my family come here two generations ago? >> i'm not. >> they were desperate. it was not because they were levelheaded and had options. this was a desperate cause to get here. the system was different then. now it's harder to get in. and out of desperation, they do it illegally. doesn't make it right, but how you deal with it becomes a sensitivity issue. here's another example -- >> chris, let me ask you, then. what's your answer? open borders? >> no. >> is that your answer? >> my job is to test power and judge what it does, hold it accountable for what it does. the people will judge it. i hold it accountable. that's what this is about. and this winds up being the theme of sensitivity. you know who suffers the most? the victims in every different dynamic. >> yeah. hispanics, primary. >> look at those in puerto rico right now. look at puerto rico -- >> puerto rico has nothing to do with immigration! they're americans!