so what does this all mean for michael cohen, you think? >> well, the tape is in character. it's in character for michael cohen. it's in character for donald trump who's run his business empire like an organized crime organization. now, some of this may be parody, that they're trying to be the tough guys. >> i was surprised, though, because i know michael cohen and i've spoken to him a lot. and i've never seen that side of him. but it's obvious it is him on tape. >> it's him, and they have made their reputations based on intimidation, and it's not just a new york city thing. this goes beyond the rough and tumble of new york city politics. and i think the importance of the tapes are not that one. it's what else do they have? what else are on the tapes particularly if he's talking to the president? because i have a feeling that if there are conversations back and forth about the business, we're going to hear things that the president absolutely doesn't want to get out.