president is interfering in the justice department? >> who knows what to make of that? remember, it was the president a week or so ago who said that rudy giuliani needed a little time to get his facts straight when he misspoke or at least according to the president misspoke about the circumstances of the michael cohen payoff to stormy daniels. it's hard to know whether rudy giuliani is making an informed statement about how actually the at&t decision was made or he is just shooting off his mouth. i noted that hadas, who you were talking to earlier, pointed to the sworn affidavit from the head of the justice department antitrust division that there was no contact by the president or anybody at white house to the justice department about the decision they made. you know, clearly this contradicts that. how much weight to give giuliani i think is unknowable at this point. >> so listen, michael cohen was