>> so what happened between the voluntary and the grand jury. voluntary, they knew the answer, they want to test your veracity. in the voluntary, there was some insight by me given. when i went to the grand jury, there were things that i told them. they just want facts, facts, what i knew. >> given that caputo as of a few weeks says that the special counsel is focused on collusion. can you rule out the possibility that they didn't find anything. >> i don't know if any collusion at all and by the way, i don't know how we define collusion here too. is collusion that the trump campaign talked to julian assange? we don't know if there was collusion. i doubt that they did because vladimir putin would be too part to directly collude with the trump campaign. >> let me ask you something about your view. you just told the washington examiner you said if somebody's s stinks, somebody's s stinks. and the president's s stinks. can you explain to me in relatively terms what you mean when you say the president's s stinks. >> i think it was in the context, the inquiry was how do i compare rudy to what i did that day when i was talking