before they put out the questions, and completely soil the atmosphere, the chances were pretty good. now, we're going to have some convincing to do. they have to convince us they can be objective and not out to -- >> what does that mean? with me, steven levine, great to see you, thank you for coming in. >> good morning. >> they say they have to do some convincing now. is that how this works? >> it is not how it works. to look at the situation, i liken this situation to a game of chicken, kate. and on one hand, you have mr. mueller and his team who have in their arsenal or depending on your perspective, the power of the grand jury subpoena. we know mr. mueller threatened to issue a subpoena, if mr. -- if president trump doesn't sit for a voluntary interview.