their survival tactic. that is why people -- all the experts want to figure out and find out what exactly kim jong un needs by denuclearization. the foreign minister said we will know when we get around this table. maybe by the end of the situation today we have a better idea of what exactly both sides mean and what they are committed to when it comes to denuclearization. as for human rights, let's be clear, it is the worst violator of human rights in the world as it stands right now. everybody wants to see human rights on the table. all the human rights activists and families who have been separated. all the people who are currently suffering in north korea in gulags and other such places. no doubt this is a massive issue that needs to be talked about and resolved for the future. it is not on the formal agenda