then. so it was kind of a reunion, too. >> that's a small world. >> super small. sally yates, the attorney general was the same person i met in the campaign eating popsicles with her kids. >> don't you find avenatti a fascinating character? is he beating trump at his own game? >> he is a titanic match for the president, and he is right out of central casting. he's super creative. i mean he like trump knows how to get the media's attention over and over again. and he has -- well, the other thing is not only has he been creative strategically as we know with monica lewinsky and other cases like this, sometimes it's not where the investigation starts but could be some minor thing like an illegal campaign contribution that ends up being the real problem that ends upturning the tide that ends up