to one-up the other? don't you have to anticipate that? >> there is a colleague of mine, at the new yorker, robin wright wrote about this, this is sort of backwards. normally the president comes in at the end. it was agreed by lower level people. nixon's breakthrough visiting china, that was three years of meetings. so there's a danger here that it's going to -- that they will meet and kim jong-un will have this great, you know, moment in the global spotlight, you know, and nothing really comes out of it for trump. so they need to manage expectations and i think start meetings now and try to plan out, to start this at the beginning of a dialogue. they're not going to instantly solve everything. >> is there a great reward for north korea, that this helps legitimize it? for the u.s. there are risks and there are rewards. >> yes. again, i want to be fair to trump, i think this is the right thing to do, to meet with him, but i think he has to be patient, listen to his aides, listen to past administrations. this is an old north korean