my lawyer, yes. >> okay. and to your knowledge, he did not respond either before 3:00 p.m. today? he's been -- you haven't talked to him today? >> i tried to contact him. he didn't call me back. >> sam nunberg this afternoon and this evening as well. gloria borger joins us now as well as jeff tubin and phil mudd. jeff, just from a legal standpoint, what is he facing if he doesn't go to the grand jury, if he doesn't hand over the documents he's been asked to? >> legally this is a very simple situation. if he simply just doesn't comply, doesn't take the fifth, just doesn't show up, mueller goes to the judge who is supervising the grand jury, asks him to be held in contempt. they hold him in contempt because he didn't show up. then the marshals go get him, and he is held for up to 18 months, where he has the keys to the cell himself, just agreeing to testify. i don't think mueller wants to do that. i think mueller wants to dial down the controversy, talk to