legislatively on the hill, so right now, this president is in a watershed mark legislatively and staff-wise, and he's got to put up or shut up. >> david, does this fight it out mentality breed the chaos we've seen in the white house? >> no, i don't think so. i mean, look -- >> yes. >> this is hardly -- this is hardly the first president, in my view, hardly the first president to bring in teams of people that have disagreements on issues to have them argue in front of him, and then for him to make a decision. i mean, this is often how presidential decision making goes. the reason we have chaos in the white house is because trump breeds chaos because he does not ak act in a planned manner where they go through the proper steps, and then, you know, if you roll out tariffs, whatever they think about tariffs, so you conduct all the paperwork and then you roll out a program and let everybody what's going on, and then -- >> you also need experts there as well, though. >> yeah, well, trump has experts. >> you need experts.