bannon, arguably, that wasn't the right direction for a president who wants to be the leader of everybody in the country. the talent is bleeding out. the leaks come all the time, ana. you have fundamental points of instability. how many times have we heard that mcmaster may be out? whether it's true or not, it's not good. if the president isn't doing things to make it better, he's making it worse. >> i think you're using the word talent loosely. a lot of people who are staff there bled out. some of them should have never been in the white house. i think part of what you've seen is john kelly do a lot of cleanup work with folks like gorka, like bannon, that should have never -- folks like scaramucci who should have never been in those positions. that being said, if there's no chaos in the white house, it walks like chaos, talks like chaos and looks like chaos. in politics, perception is as good as reality. >> what's not chaos is 4 million