the russians actually influencing the election? and so we've seen the intelligence community say, yes, that they had hacked the dnc e-mails. we've seen public statements to that effect, but this is the first time we've seen pure factual evidence, really methodically put in where people are being charged with a crime of conspiring to defraud the united states. so that, to me, is -- in order to prove there was anyone who conspired with the russians, we have to improve the russians were engaged in this behavior, and this indictment is really just an astounding statement of that behavior. >> phil, as a former fbi and cia official, just the tradecraft involved in this, the amount of effort put in, although at relatively low cost, i think about $1 million a month, from a russian standpoint, do you think they saw this as a successful operation? >> successful? this is brilliant. starting in 2014, a foreign intelligence entity was so successful with hundreds of people and maybe tens of millions of dollars, that they