there truly was nothing there, the way he says there is nothing there, then he would say, i'm an open book. investigate me. investigate my team. but we know that that's not the case. >> yeah. >> i think at the end of the day, there is going to be issues with moneylaundering, with his taxes, with how beholden he is to the russians. and then that will lead to whatever imbroglio -- i love that word -- happened on the campaign. >> well, kevin, listen, he said he can't wait to talk to the special counsel. maybe he is frustrated. what do you think. >> i think this is emblematic how much the white house spends fighting against this president's instincts. and his instincts when it comes to the special counsel is to really just create chaos. he has an incredible appetite for chaos. i think the white house in this instance actually won out against the president. and don mcgahn's threatening to quit actually prevented this from happening.