president obstructs justice by firing the fbi director or seeking to fire the special counsel, frankly, i think is not only not really news, it's not surprising. no president -- nobody likes to be under investigation. you don't think bill clinton wanted to get rid of me when i was the independent counsel? i mean like news flash, hello. >> you think he ordered people to get rid of? you don't think that kenneth starr would wonder why he would order -- one someone to get rid of you if he had nothing to hide. >> look the essence of judgment is to understanding that that would not have been productive to do. if the president wanted to have somebody fire, the president knows how to fire somebody. the fact that it didn't happen is the story. the story is not that he ordered it to happen. the story is that he -- he made a judgment not to fire him. >> renato, go ahead. >> no. >> i've got to say, i'm