>> but you don't think it was him trying to stay above the political stray. that's what this is. this is politics. strzok isn't mueller. he's not a main guy on his team. he isn't making decisions. >> i disagree. strzok had, at the fbi and this investigation had incredible powers. he wasn't -- >> how do you know at the mueller investigation he had special powers or considerable powers? do you know what his role was? >> his leadership role -- >> but he -- >> it was a leadership role. we know that. >> how do you know that? >> because he was one of the highest-ranking people in the fbi, the number two guy in countersblenlg counterintelligence. you don't put a guy in there like that to make coffee. >> i didn't say he was making coffee, but there's a big difference than saying this is one of the main guys in the probe and he was making coffee. i gave you the coffee thing with papadopoulos. you can't just throw it out every time you want to minimize someone. i get that it works politically, but are you a little concerned that this heavy-handed offensive