the white house and everyone else connected has done everything they can to have a different view. he's a nobody and it was a volunteer position. but there were a lot of quote unquote volunteers on this campaign. a lot of people who aren't paid. ban p, paul manafort, so what? >> yeah, so one, i think there's absolutely right that you don't necessarily have to be the highest rank iing official on a campaign to be privy to information in going ons in a campaign. i do think there's a little bit of truth in what they're both saying, although more to the papadopoulos side of the truth and it is to the trump side of the truth. if you go back this time and look at the campaign was like, it was very lean. some would say very small. it was not very sophisticated at all. in fact, they couldn't necessarily attract the star talent to come in to be their advisers. it was very, very disorganized. sam, no disrespect, the fact he