with the lack of compliance or might i say not lack of, but the slowness in which compliance has been there. but let's not all forget that the president has the ability to pardon anyone so i don't want to jump to the conclusion that he would otherwise be indict or is a target, but certainly he's a person of interest who knows a lot. but the president holds the cause to the extent that at the end of the day, no matter what happens to kushner, what happens proceeding forward with manafort or anyone else. general flynn. the president certainly could exercise that authority under the constitution to say all is forgiven. >> errol, we were talking to julian, obviously, about where kushner has been as of late. how much of i guess this new reclusiveness that we are seeing could be equated to the john kelly effect, let's say? >> well, we see some reporting that john kelly says jared