into -- they are being sworn to tell the truth and they don't want to go to jail, so they are going to tell the truth. >> the key part too also is he was presented apparently by the house committee with an e-mail that he had sent back to the campaign describing who he had met with and what his perception of it all was. >> right. and who that person was still remains to be seen. but he did, as you know, and you've said, ask permission to go and they said you can't go as someone from the campaign, but feel free to go. and the concern for him, and i think the over all trump team should be in this "new york times" article, they say he has spoken with the fbi and has appeared before the grand jury, has his story changed? has he told them the same thing he told the house committee this week? if his story has changed that significantly we'll have a george p number two and that's not a good situation to be in. and if his story has changed, then i don't see any other outcome for him. >> does it matter if, i mean, carter page by his own, or i mean i don't know if it's true,