conservative estimate of how much growth we're likely to get out of this pro-growth tax reform that we're in the middle of accomplishing. >> well, you're arguing now that they're going to spur growth and then that, in the end, will make the tax cuts pay for themselves. but there's really no evidence, historically, that that happens. i'll just give you some examples, according to the cbo, the reagan tax cuts reduced revenue by $445 billion over four years, and the bush tax cuts did the same thing. they added $1.7 trillion to the national debt over ten years. >> well, you're referring to the wrong bill. reagan signed tax reform 31 years ago today, and this is a tax reform bill, designs to make america grow more. and there was a gush of revenue after the '86 tax reform bill. the two bills you referred to were different bills, but i would argue that would produce more revenue, as well. but clearly, the '86 tax reform act got america growing again, and it lasted for a sustained