conversation that whether this person leaves or this person comes? that this is going to change? >> yes, we can stop that conversation. it doesn't make an impact fop your earlier question, why did the president have to have his advisers there? jo even think he thought about it. he was singularly focused in the aftermath of charlottesville and media criticism and republicans criticism. i don't want to psychoanalyze too much but doubt he was concerned about the impact on gary cohen or elaine chao standing up there with him. >> we're laughing, because this is not new and not a surprise, but it's leadership 101. >> yes. >> leadership 101. if you're going to take a risky stance you don't drag people down with you. people who serve you loyally. >> you watch their body language, looked like they did not -- maybe should have been surprised. they mknow who they're working for but all looked surprised. >> a fascinating mix of old-fashioned political ambition and the human ego combined with