law's been elected president of the united states. >> we just heard essentially graham saying perhaps this is bogus. perhaps there was a discussion or perhaps there wasn't and kislyak said there was this discussion knowing he was being monitored by u.s. intelligence and wanting to throw them off. what do you think? >> it fits "a" there's the fact that american intelligence agencies are included russia tried to tip the election in trump's favor and there's this broad question about why the embrace of russia, why the back channel and why this idea we can have this great alliance with russia that is our adversary and so different than the united states on so many basic issues about unbiassed press freedom, democracy in general and it's -- the administration keeps saying this is a good thing. i don't understand it. it puzzles me. >> is it a bad thing that you think to get closer relationship with russia? >> i think we should -- you want to reduce tensions but i don't