even though he's pivoted a little bit, is there a way to calculate of these two which would be the better ally in which to work with our president? >> i think the foreign policy establishment in the united states would clearly prefer emmanuel macron, a globalist who has spoken out very strongly in favor of the european union, whether some people in the administration would support that is another question. i think what's also really interesting about this is that even if marine le pen does not win the second round, the influence of her populist politics is going to shape the policies of the winner. there was an election back in 2002 in france when jean-marie le pen, her father, got to the second round and only ended up with 18% of vote. jean chirac was president and he could almost disregard that sentiment. if marine le pen gets to 40% of the vote in the second round and still loses, that's a