moderates. our president was elected to comply with the constitution. he's in violation of the constitution if he's receiving payments from foreign governments or corporations controlled by foreign governments. it's going to stop. >> one quick question for you. we only have a little time left. you're an ethics expert. let me ask you something. what is your definition of when it is correct to call something a lie? >> when it's not true. when somebody says something that's not true. we have heard untruths over and over again in this campaign. >> if i say two plus two is five, that's not true. maybe i did the math wrong. that doesn't show an intent to deceive. that's not a lie. when do you call something a lie versus just being wrong? >> if you're intentionally lying to people or recklessly make up facts which has been going on over and over again. i used to fight with the left wingers in the academic world