have them disagreeing in front of him. >> a lot of people compare or talk about the george w. bush administration, comparing steve bannon's role in a way to karl rove's influence. and i'm wondering if you see any parallels or too much is being made about that sort of alleged parallel. >> i don't know bannon. i do know karl rove. and he's among the most effective and astute, both political and policy people that i've ever had the privilege of working with. i was chief of staff when carl was senior adviser. and so to go back to the point about equals, i don't think that president bush had any advisers to whom he listened more closely than karl rove. maybe more so than me, as chief of staff. and i was fine with that, because president bush empowered me to run the white house staff.