>> that was a great spin -- >> i would be brutalized if i said that. >> that is a great spin when you compare the women numbers, right, where hillary in the treatment of women, hillary is up double digits, and the african-american or race numbers, where basically donald trump is up margin of error. those are bad numbers for donald trump, as they should be. given how he has treated people of color throughout this entire race, and his history. >> what about enthusiasm? because you have to make the numbers reality. >> totally. >> i'm ron record saying yes he has huge crowds, yes i see signs all over my neighborhood for trump. but those are microassessments of what's going to be 100 million and then many more votes. so it's not the best metric for looking at it. but enthusiasm is on the side of trump when it comes to the energy of his base. you dispute that why? >> well, the -- what you see at a rally, right, is on his side. >> the enthusiasm numbers in polls also were higher for him.