band. >> amazing. >> and what got us here were issues. we knew because we were visually dull and against all those spinning wheels it would be -- the only chance we had would be to book issues that were seldom seen on television. and our first show was madeline mario'hare, the atheist. we put a gay guy on in 1968 before stonewall. >> amazing. what was the reaction to that? >> everybody thought their kids would catch it if they watched it. it's really amazing where we've come with that particular revolution. it's been warp speed. >> what your particular favorite show if if could i let you do one tomorrow, what would it be? >> we had a very good program with mohamed ali. this guy was --