and here i was with two talking heads and no one in new york or l.a. could understand this. we had folding chairs. two cameras. no desk, no couch. no band. >> amazing. >> and what got us here were issues. we knew because we were visually go and against all those spinning wheels, it would be the only chance we had would be to book issues that were seldom seen on television. our first show was madeleine marie o'hare. the atheist. we put a gay guy on in 1968, before stonewall. >> amazing. what was the reaction to that? >> oh, everybody thought their kids would catch it if they watched it. it's really amazing where we've come with that particular revolution. it's just been warp speed.