and we're a huge wind operator. what has to happen is we have to drive the costs down of that technology. that is the key, because in america, they want affordable, reliable and clean electricity. and the emphasis, particularly during these tough times, is on affordability. >> right. and at different times in a strong economy, clean becomes a more important thing to some people. but in tough times, particularly these high oil prices, your energy costs as a household continue to increase. jim, always a pleasure to talk to you. let's continue this conversation another time. >> okay. delighted to talk to you today. >> jim rogers is the ceo of duke energy, one of the nation's biggest electricity producers in utility providers. discriminating against the unemployed simply because they're out of work. it happens and now one state is doing something about it. my x, y, z is next. promise flights for 25,000 miles, but... [ man ] there's never any seats for 25,000 miles. frustrating, isn't it? but that won't happen with the capital one venture card.