>> you must have been terrible. >> terrible, exactly, because i like a glass of wine every evening, just one or two, and that's it. >> proper heartbreak. >> yeah, yeah. >> how did you get over it? >> well, there's no way of getting over it. there's no way round it. there's no way through it. you know, i went to therapists, you know, and it just -- nothing, nothing works, you know. >> something works because you came through it. >> time. >> you believe that time is -- >> yeah, yeah, yeah, time. >> you say you've learned lessons from that experience too. what were the lessons do you think for you as a guy, as a husband? you know, obviously now with penny you're incredibly happy, but what were the lessons you had to learn from that not working, that second marriage? >> probably, you know, i'm a better listener than i've ever been before. i listen more, and i say i love you a lot more than i used to. >> do you? >> yeah, i used to say it, but now i'm all over her like a dirty rag, penny, i love you, darling, i love you, pussycat. >> you've gone soft. >> i have. nothing wrong with being soft.