former ministers, the minister of commerce, the minister of tourism, the minister of interior. i think maybe this regime is cracking. maybe that immovable object may be beginning to move. but we're still early in this confrontation. there is really no victory for either side yet. but morally, morally, the regime has completely collapsed. >> and yet again, i think every day, the lives of these protesters hang in the ambulance. we'll come to you back after the break. how the white house was handlinging the crisis. ivan, you spoke today with the man really of the hour these last few days, i want to play some of your interview with him.