of shoes can buy you, your web si site, your palace words. kevin knows a lot about internet security and its short falls real and imagined. in his younger days he penetrated some of the most complex computer networks in the world and p spent five years in prison because of it. today he's a sought-after expert and consultant. he joins us today from las vegas. kevin -- >> hi, ali. how are you? >> good to see you. i have to say, i didn't realize -- i thought we were concerned about people taking over entire systems and cyber attacks and cyber warfare. this is much simpler. this almost flies under the radarment radarment. i didn't know you could buy administrative access and passwords. >> it's kind of a new trind. before it was buying credit card numbers and bank accounts and people's social security numbers. now it's gone to military, government, and university web sites. >> first of all, this site says i can buy administrative access