croatia or a particular city in bosnia. >> it's worth mentioning. there was another side to dick holbrooke and his marriage to connie martin was really one of the romance stories. >> yes. >> the two of them really had a special relationship that i think brought him enormous sense of satisfaction. >> they were in a certain sense at the center of the entire social circuit among what i would call the council on foreign relations, erudites, smart thinkers who to a certain extent these days are being derided but they were the ones who would run american foreign policy, understood our role in the world but exceptionalism. it is there. we're going to continue with our guests in a minute. we have to take a quick break. we'll be right back. >> in regard to afghanistan, here is a country which -- in which both india and pakistan have interests and unless those interests can be brought into symmetry and that symmetry aligned with the afghans, this