should remember, not only has the taxpayer been harmed here but the investor which, again, is the taxpayer, right? >> when you talk about securitize, putting these investment into pools and selling them into pension funds so these are the retirement investments -- >> that's right. >> the middle class retirement dollars that have been injured. >> correct. >> you mentioned the ratings agencies. they saw the documents as well? >> they've said, we don't have the information provided to us by the issuer nor to our own due diligence. it seems intentionally avoided collecting this information. >> and they're going to make money from giving this a hot rating? >> of course. the more deals able to be done, the more the rating agencies profit. that became a big deal of this