>> defense spending could be cut in half with no loss to national security. karl rove is clearly the -- he's running everything. no, it's not even desperate. this is like a brett favre type of exhibition of, we have nothing left. if you're talking about karl rove, what year is it? >> i'm always a little suspect when they bring up very specifically people like rove, like gillespie and boehner -- not you, the other one. >> i want to point out that i'm not part of the ed gillespie -- i'm with the brooklyn gillespies. >> i really don't think that it plays across america. i don't want to put out there that people don't care or they're not bright or not dialed in. i don't think that that's what they care about. i don't think they care about karl rove's name. >> i think even the vice president is trying to keep track of who the vice president is --