impose order on the chaos, i asked him at the end, there's a quote from a book, a colleague of mine at the "washington post," rick atkinson, wrote of one of the great world war ii histories "day of battle." in it, rick, who is this sensational historian, who's just lived in world war ii, writes about war, and he says it corrupts everyone. that no heart is unstained in the process of war. i handed this to president obama. and he stood there and read it. and he said, i'm sympathetic to this view. go read my nobel prize speech. i went home and dug it out. and there it is, obama saying that war is never glorious. and saying that this war, any war, is manifestation of human folly. >> larry: some wars have been -- world war ii was won.