a real heyday slaughtering shiite women and children had a profound effect -- it took a while, but profound effect on sunni arab attitudes in the middleast and, needless to say, the attacks in the sunni arab world. and i thinklso in pakistan, inevitably bounced back against al qaeda and theirt ability to prent themselves as sort of modern day paladans of a just islamic cause. >> you've been arguing for a while that this is actually a sea change that has been relatively unnoticed in the muslim world, right? >> yes. absolutely. in fact, al qaeda has not just suffered, faree a catastrophic military defeat. i would argue a more criticalat development is the fact that al qaeda has lost the struggle for muslim hearts and minds. yet fareed, here we are today.