the saying goes, god didn't create man. man created god. i find it easier to believe that we don't know the answer to that question and never will. point? >> well, i would -- >> larry: we struggle but we ain't ever going to know. >> i think there are ways of gaining access to reality, spiritual or transcendent reality. traditionally, there have been proofs from the existence of god from plato onward. >> larry: give me one proof south florida metaphysical proof, for example, that stems from being itself unconditioned or uncaused. there's another one that stems from the pure intelligible of being. there's several other kinds of proofs that almost deepak alludes to when he talks about consciousness.