chuck, their defense, these are whales. we're making a living. how are we different than fishermen? >> well -- >> larry: fishermen kill fish. >> fishermen kill fish. the fact is fishing is not illegal. sea shepherd enforces international conservation laws. the actions japan is taking are illegal. that's why we're going after that. >> larry: is it because we emotionally feel different about the whale than the fish? >> well, i think -- some people have an attachment to whales and seals and dolphins. that's why the sea shepherd focuses primarily on these. if we can't save these animals that we have, some intrinsic connection that we have, no chance of saving the rest of them. >> larry: what do you think of the people who do go and harpoon them? >> they're breaking international conversation law. look, of course there are people who are wanting to also feed their own families, and empathy there, everyone needs to make a living. but these people are illegally poaching wild animals. in the last five years, humans have actually realized how important biodiversity is.