it's 2030. how much dependence on oil from the middle east? >> according to what the leadership wants. >> larry: what do you think? >> i think we've got to go to our own resources. and we have resources to go to. >> larry: nothing from there then? >> i'll take out the opec first. the oil from canada and mexico is fine with me. but north america is okay. but i just as soon get rid of the rest of it. >> larry: natural gas is still your big thing, right? >> you have 4,000 trillion cubic feet of natural gas in the united states. and it's 30% cleaner than oil. it's cheaper. it sells for 25% of the cost of oil -- >> larry: is it seems logical. >> it sure does. you'd look like an idiot if we don't do it. >> larry: china has passed the united states as the world's biggest energy consumer.