that's the role you value and i think she just had probably too many ts to cross. she also wanted to be viewed as sexy ask everything else. at some point, you can be sexy, but that can't be your goal. >> larry: were you jealous? >> oh, no. no. i'm 60. i'll be 60 -- 61 in the beginning of july. i quit being jealous of younger women. >> larry: did you watch her on oprah? >> i did. i taped it and watched it later. >> larry: was that hard? >> no, it wasn't hard. >> larry: really? >> no. no. >> larry: you have a lot of resilience. you ought to write a book on that. >> i ought to write a book like that. >> larry: it wasn't hard to watch? >> no. >> larry: all right, let's get to what we have to get to. in which a lot of people were shocked. and that's the book "game change." >> yep. >> larry: the best-seller written by john heilemann and mark halpern, two respected