appear and they will emerge and re-emerge at least more than 20 times in the history. and they will believe in terrorism. they will believe in mass killing. they will believe in enforcing their ideology with arms. they will believe in any kind of torturing the people so that they might bring their age and true force forward -- >> right. >> so these khawarij people, they are declaring the whole muslim ummah non-muslims, and they are declaring the non-muslims as their blood is lawful to be shed, their bloodshed is lawful. >> right. so -- >> so this was the khawarij ideology, which is continuing until today. >> right. >> and i think that terrorists of today, no doubt about that, that they are -- this is the continuity of khawarij movement. >> okay. i want to ask you a personal question. a friend of yours, a cleric, mr. naimi, was a close friend of yours, and he also spoke out against extremism and terrorism. there we have him on the screen.