we don't pluck them from the wild. the work that seaworld has done -- by the way, larry, $67 million dollars was spent last year at seaworld, the marine mammals park and many hundreds of animals they release to the wild. if it wasn't for seaworld animals like the manatee in florida might not be in existence right now. i know what seaworld does. i go there as a visitor and a person who loves to watch that park and see what they do. >> larry: ingrid, don't you think the public loves this, though? we've had this tragedy but doesn't the public respond to this? >> let me say, larry, there are two victims here. this whale who was captured in the wild when he was 2 years old and spent a quarter of a century in this bathtub-like existence as bob says. he's a male whale. he's raging with hormones. he wants to swim. he wants to mate. he wants to have freedom like all living creatures.