Transcripts For CSPAN3 Law 20240703

Half. [background noises] the subcommittee on oversight will come to order. I know quorum is present without objection the clear chair made a clear recess at a time but also with out objection the meeting record will remain open for five legislative days so members can submit any materials they wish to be included therein. Today we have congressman bryant joining us in these waved onto the subcommittee to participate in todays hearing. He will arrive a little later. As a former army explosive disposal technician congressman is wellpositioned to expose any failures of the generous six device responses that we will analyze today. I appreciate having him here we look forward to his discussion. Thank you Ranking Member torres, members of the subcommittee and or witnesses for joining us at todays oversight hearing. January 6, 2021 was an incredibly dark day for our country. Our capitol was overrun some individuals assaulted the u. S. Capitol Police Officers and they breached our halls. Additionally explosive devices were placed at the dnc and the rnc threatening our security. Today, will focus on identifying the numerous security failures that preceded and continue to persist following the discovery of two explosive devices near the u. S. Capitol complex on january 6, 2021. Although it has been more than three years we still have many unanswered questions. According to the fbi there are still no suspects as to who planted the devices found near the rnc and the dnc. I know i shared many peoples concerns there has been no update in their investigation. Additionally the generally sick select committee was meant to dive into the failures and investigations of january 6 completely neglected to january6 completely neglected to investigate the devices. Despite former Speaker Nancy Pelosi House Democrats spending millions of dollars in there two years of the select Committee Investigation into the pipe bomb was basically nonexistent. Their 845 page final report only referred to the pipe bomb five times. These references are situational as far as i can tell no investigation was conducted. In contrast of the term President Trump is mentioned in the report 1901 times. I refused to follow the select committees footsteps and conducting partisan bias investigation. There were genuine and regrettable security failures on generous six. The response to the devices was one of the most alarming. Here are the facts at approximately 12 42 p. M. The United States Capitol Police received reports of an explosive device found next to the rnc. At roughly one oh 5 00 p. M. A second device was discovered at the dnc Vice President lex Kamala Harris was inside the building. The Vice President elect came within feet of the device which if detonated could have caused serious bodily harm. Cctv footage indicates the devices were planted the night before by an individual carrying a backpack and wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt, a mask, gloves, glasses and a pair of nike air max speed turf sneakers. Despite the suspects appearance on numerous u. S. Capitol police tv cameras and the fbi efforts interviewing over 800 individuals in assessing more than 300 tips these suspects sut still remains at large. Unfortunately fbi has failed to provide subsidence of updates on the investigation despite numerous requests from congressional committees. Today they have declined to participate in our hearing. We are joined by several experts today who will help shed light on the devices response including u. S. Capitol police, assistant chief sean gallagher. On a january 6, 2021 assistant chief gallagher directed a counter surveillance to the dnc following the discovery of the device at the rnc. Today it will spend time analyzing the discrepancies of the devices response ultimately this hearing is meant to help us all move forward. I look forward to your testimony assistant chief gallagher into working together so we can ensure shortcomings of this nature do not happen again. I salute and apply the capitol Police Officers who day in and day out devote their lives to protecting the members in the halls of congress and the thousands of visitors who were here every day. We have a lot to dive into this morning. I now recognize the Ranking Member ms. Torres for five minutes for the purpose of providing an Opening Statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman i to join you in welcoming the witnesses to our hearing. Thank you for your many years of service to our community. I understand how important and dangerous sure jobs truly are. Especially when forced to protect us from those who choose to use bombs instead of the ballots to achieve their ends. I also know from many years working at the 911 dispatcher that it is usually premature to assess Law Enforcement response to a criminal act while a federal investigation till active and ongoing. And i am sure my colleagues on the other side of the aisle know this. Which leads me too wonder what exactly is this that we are doing here this morning . Maybe it is to pedal crazy right wing conspiracy theories about the generally sixth pipe bomb spreading in the dark corners of the internet. Or maybe we are here so this subcommittee can once again tried to model our history. Two of the illinois Law Enforcement and undo the efforts of the bipartisan january 6 select committee. All to distract from the simple fact the former president republican nominee for president orchestrated a corrupt theme to overturn the results of a free and fair election. When that did not work he summoned an armed mob, rattled them up and dispatch them to the capitol. Endangering the lives of everyone working here that day, including members of congress not to mention putting at risk the lives of the outgoing and incoming Vice President. I was in the house gallery when the capitol was breached. It is imperative that all of who committed criminal acts that day be held accountable for their actions including and especially whoever placed pipe bombs at the dnc and the rnc. Take time. Experts are tasked with not only solving a crime, but also identifying potential characteristics to prevent future threats from the Church Bombings that terrorized communities throughout the Civil Rights Movement to the bombing in oklahoma, federal Law Enforcement agencies have always had to work tirelessly, sometimes for years and decades to put together the pieces needed to fully investigate, identify and prosecute Domestic Violence terrorists like whomever placed these bombs. Fbi director Christopher Rae ray testified before the january committee, the Judiciary Committee last year that his agents reviewed 40,000 videophiles and assessed more than 500 tips. Law enforcement spent thousands of manhours investigating the crime and i have faith that they will continue to do so until the perpetrator is brought to justice. While my colleagues on the other side of the aisle and i disagree on some things, i hope that we can acknowledge and respect the vital work that Law Enforcement including federal Law Enforcement does on our behalf. Just last week House Republicans included cuts to doj, the fbi and the bureau of alcoholic, tobacco and firearms explosive programs in their Appropriations Bills for fiscal year 24. If they were serious about this investigation and supported Law Enforcement efforts, they wouldnt have cut critical funding for federal Law Enforcement needed to solve these crimes and others. This committee shouldnt be used as a platform to feed into internet conspiracy theorists. Rather i look forward to discussing and learning more about the responsibilities and complexities of the important work the fbi and its partners are engaged in from our witnesses. Thank you once again for taking the time to justify at the hearing and i yield back. I now recognize the full committee Ranking Member for five minutes for the purpose of providing an Opening Statement. Thank you mr. Chairman and thanks to the witnesses for joining us this morning and for your service and to all the brave men and women of the Capitol Police, fbi and other Law Enforcement for the work they do each and every day to keep the American People safe which is no easy task but we are grateful nonetheless. I must admit i am perplexed as to why we are here for a public hearing on an active criminal investigation especially one in which the fbi has repeatedly told congress including members of the subcommittee that discussing an Ongoing Investigation would undermine its integrity and make it more difficult to catch the perpetrator. I have to wonder whether that is the goal, to undermine the integrity of an Ongoing Investigation. I certainly hope not, but here we are. While im not sure what the precise goal is i certainly hope it is treated with the seriousness it deserves and that its not used as a platform to spread conspiracy theories about the fbi and the United States Capitol Police. Throughout this Congress Republicans have called to defend agencies like the fbi and the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms and explosives. In fact at least one House Republican has teachers on their websites that same defund the fbi. I must point out the irony of my friends on the other side of the aisle repeatedly criticizing the pace of this investigation while at the same time proudly attempting to defend the fbi, atf and other agencies leading the inquiry. Hows does it make sense to criticize the pace or the resources allocated while simultaneously taking those resources away . Im not the only one confused. The executive director of the fraternal order of police summed it up well, to withhold funding for Law Enforcement is at variance with common sense. Yet its not just the funding. This entire congress, House Republicans echoed the bizarre accusations that the fbi has weaponize against the American People and that it cannot be trusted in fact before its technical difficulties prevented the majority of the subcommittee from doing so, the command speaker admitted that his allies on the subcommittee were blurring faces of rioters in the january 6th footage released because, quote, we dont want them to be retaliated against him charged by the department of justice. Imagine that. People who might have broken the law we dont want to have them be retaliated against for crimes they might have committed. As im sure witnesses can attest Law Enforcement relies on the cooperation of members of the public to perform effective investigations all leveling these baseless accusations against the fbi to discourage witnesses and members of the public who may be helpful and have information from corroboration. Dont get me wrong its key that the individual who placed or individuals who placed bombs at the dnc and rnc ahead of the january 6 attack be caught and prosecuted and while i appreciate the majority interest, im not sure how the hearing will help advance that a goal or with the kennedy and House Administration can possibly do legislatively to speed up in active fbi investigation. Again i thank the witnesses for being here for your service and willingness to answer questions and i am looking forward to your testimony and with that i yield back. The gentleman yields. This hearing is to review the handling of two serious incidences that affect the safety and security of republicans and democrats and visitors to the city. I was sure that this could and should be a bipartisan hearing and i hope that it will be. The fbi has been investigating this for three years. This hearing is not about the fbi, nor its investigation. Its about the response and the process of responding to three very dangerous devices that provide an eminent risk to people here at the capital. The fbi was invited to be here today but they declined and i believe we have assembled an impressive panel of experts that can help us break down the response. This hearing isnt about the fbi investigation but something this committee does have oversight of which is the Capital Police and Law Enforcement that respondent how they respond to incidents like this. Without objection all other members Opening Statements will be made part of the hearing and they are submitted, if they are submitted by 5 p. M. Today. Pursuant to paragraph b of the Committee Rule six the witnesses will please stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony that you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . Let the record to show the witnesses answered in the affirmative, you may be seated in thank you all. I will now introduce the witnesses. The first witnesses the u. S. Capitol Police Assistant chief for uniformed operations mr. Sean gallagher. Thank you for your Longterm Service to the u. S. Capitol police and members year. Assistant chief gallagher joined in 2001 and on january 6, 2021 was the deputy chief for the protective service bureau. We are grateful that you are here today, assistant chief calgary and we look forward to your perspective regarding the response and how we can improve in the future. Our next witness is mr. Sean dennis the cofounder, president and ceo zero of the association. Mr. Dennis served at the bomb squad Commander Special Operations Sergeant for the county Sheriffs Office and centennial colorado. I hope i got that name pronounced correctly. Hes been involved in the bomb technician and explosives community for the quarter quartercentury of 25 years. The next witness is a former Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority head canine detection trainer. Did i get that right . Close enough. He spent over 12 years as an explosive canine trainer and handler and has supervised thousands from explosive devices. Since the u. S. Secret service supervised the sweep of the dnc was not available to testify before the subcommittee today, we look forward to hearing the perspective on the canine security sweep of the dnc. What went right and what possibly may have gone wrong. The final witness is a big fan of your first name by the way. A former fbi special agent and master bomb technician. He was a First Responder to the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, 1996 atlanta bombing and the 9 11 World Trade Center attacks among others. In 2022, he was awarded as an honorary u. S. Commander for his work with Security Forces and military working dogs. As i said, we have a very impressive panel of experts that i think can help them navigate us here today. We appreciate the witnesses being here today and look forward to your testimony. As a reminder, we read your written statements and it will appear in the full hearing record. Under Committee Rule nine, you are to limit your oral presentation to a brief summary of your written statement unless i extend the time period in consultation with the Ranking Member. Please remember to turn on your microphones using the button in front of you so that members can hear. If you dont, i will very politely remind you to turn your microphone on. The light on the timer in front of you will turn green. After four minutes, it will turn yellow. When the red light comes on, your five minutes has expired. You dont have to stop midsentence, but we would ask that you please wrap up your statements once the red light is illuminated. I now recognize the assistant chief gallagher for five minutes. Good morning, chairman, Ranking Member torres and members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation to testify today about the january 6 pipe bombs. The department greatly appreciates the continued commitment to carry out their duties of protecting the members of congress, visitors and the entire capital complex and legislative process each and every day. Congress support has been invaluable as we continue to work on building the Lessons Learned from january 6th while also meeting the dramatic workload increases and increasing volatile threat environment. As you know, the United States Capital Police patrol a campus that is completely open. The public is a constitutional right to visit and petition and our officers and civilians work 24 7 to keep you safe whether you are here on capitol hill or whether you travel to your home district. Our mission is vast and responsibilities have expanded immensely over the years. The threat has morphed from securing the buildings to the threat of a 9 11 scenario and now to be an unprecedented increase to members and their families. January 6, 2021 however, that safety was threatened in a number of ways including the placement of two pipe bombs, one in an alley behind the capitol grounds, which is adjacent to the Republican National committee, and one is the Democratic National Committee Just off capital grounds. Id like to walk through the events of the day with the pipe bombs and then id like to answer any questions the committee may have. January 6, 2020 when i was in charge of the predicted Services Bureau was the chief and our protective Services Bureau is our dignitary protective vision, and our investigation division. On january 6, that approximately 12 44, one of our officers was notified by the Republican National Committee Security that there appeared to be a pipe bomb located at the rear of the alley. A command post was established by 12 49 into the device is located during the search of the area. Around the same time one of the canine technicians identified a pickup truck parked directly across the street with a weapon in plain view and a truck appearing to be weighed down. The pickup truck was parked directly across the street and assets from the Department Hazardous device section more commonly known as the bomb squad began to assess at approximately 12 52. The pipe bomb was eventually disrupted by the bomb squad and cleared at approximately 3 p. M. The earlier pickup truck that i mentioned that the canine technician located was declared suspicious and members of the bomb squad began to assess the vehicle at approximately 3 25. The vehicle was found to contain cocktails, canisters, spray, canisters full of ammunition, rifle, shotgun, handgun, multiple machetes and a crossbow. The owner of the vehicle was later identified, arrested and ultimately serving 47 months in federal prison. The overall scene was cleared at approximately 6 30 p. M. As a result of the discovery of the pipe bomb, members of the departments counter surveillance unit as they have been trained to do began to push out and search for other locations for either suspicious packages, suspicious people or similar devices. At approximately 1 p. M. , the department requested transit to have trains bypass the metro due to the presence of the pipe bomb. At 1 07 approximately 23 minutes after the Capitol Police was alerted of the pipe bomb at the rnc, two of the agents located what appeared to be a similar pipe bomb underneath the bench in front of the dnc. The building was evacuated at about 1 11 p. M. And officers immediately began to clear the residences and businesses in the area. The scene was cleared at approximately 4 36 after the bomb squad disrupted and cleared the pipe bombs. The fbi then took possession of both devices and all evidence and as the lead agency on the entire investigation. It is my understanding that both of these devices were fully functional and a viable pipe bombs. However, it is not clear whether they would have gone off on their own how do they not been rendered unsafe by the bomb squad. As noted earlier the bomb squad successfully handled an extremely dangerous situation on january 6th, but since then weve determined additional improvements are necessary. But the department has continued to seek ways to improve the operations overhauling many of the policies, processes and implementing numerous changes related to civil disturbance unit, operational planning, training and equipment, incident command and internal communications as well as a host of other areas. Since january 6 the bomb squad technicians began receiving specialized advanced training from the certified exclusive Specialist Program and the department has a bomb Technician Training with an elite team that is one of only 14 such in the country now. The bomb squad is also participating in the raven challenge which includes the Public Safety squads and military teams performing realistic operational scenarios. The bomb squads remain one of the largest and one of the most capable squads in the entire country. And the changes noted above will ensure the department is even better prepared to respond to any similar incidents. Finally, i want to make sure that i know, and this is important. Im extremely proud that none of these two pipe bombs nor any of the cocktails on the debate exploded or harmed anybody. This is without a doubt directly due to the outstanding efforts not only of the bomb squad but other members of the u. S. Capitol police. We now know based on the Video Surveillance that both of these devices have been placed the night before on january 5th, 2021. While there is footage of the suspect, to date nobody has been arrested despite the 500,000delery were by the fbi ay hours of hard work by the fbi and other Law Enforcement agencies. I do hope one day the person or persons responsible for planting these explosive devices on capital grounds will be brought to justice by the fbi. The department thinks the committee for its support and we greatly appreciate the continued partnership with congress. I welcome any questions. Thank you. Mr. Dennis, you are recognized for five minutes. Good morning, chairman, Ranking Member and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity today to provide background on the response to improvised explosive devices in the United States. My name is sean and im a retired sheriff from the county Sheriffs Office in denver colorado. At the retirement i worked for the Transportation Security Administration as an exclusive specialist at the Denver International airport. It is during this time i along with a small group of military and Public Safety initiatives with a similar background recognized the need for an organization to support the community. We felt underrepresented despite the Critical Role we were playing to keep our homeland safe. In 2016, we formed the association known as the u. S. Bta. And today we represent over 5,000 active military and Public Safety initiatives by educating those in the position of leadership on the desperate needs of this community. It also conducts Technology Training exercises to identify technology and training deficit within the bomb community. In addition, conducting research involving counter ied tools and equipment along with research characterizing hazardous homemade explosives. The Lessons Learned from our training and research are used to give the Public Safety bomb technicians the capability to render safe ieds and a safe, efficient and effective manner. Some of the critical areas in the communities that we would like to highlight today include one, training and certifications. Public safety bomb technicians receive basic training and certification of the fbi hazardous devices in alabama consisting of a six week curriculum. Bomb technicians receive a variety of education and training from various u. S. Government entities such as the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and explosives, the fbi and dhs. The National Bomb squad commanders advised National Guidelines to conduct 24 hours of monthly training in addition to the certification with. Furthermore bomb squads into the technicians seek provisional organizations and industries to increase the knowledge. Number two, incident response, bomb technicians face several challenges been called to an incident in which a suspect package or Hazardous Material has been identified. First and foremost, they are facing the unknown. Only the person responsible for the construction and who the target is and the malicious actions. For the preservation of life and last challenges upon arrival someone with lifethreatening challenges that may include the following, the initial intelligence. First responders assistance provided to the responding technicians the only provided a portion of the information required. Determination of the environment, identification of single or multiple devices. Potential of secondary devices, unseen targeting First Responders, location and device, standoff area densely populated with bystanders and civilians, inability to evacuate in a timely manner. Having the appropriate abutment available to handle the call for weather conditions, adequate personnel for safe operations. Possibly a remote detonation by the bomb maker limiting the Critical Infrastructure and the inability to remain remote and remember if you can see the device the device can see you. Communications among team members and command staff. Although not present during the event that took place january 6, 2021, im aware of some of the challenges they might have faced as i have experienced similar challenges during my time at the bomb squad commanders of the Sheriffs Office. The job is inherently dangerous and stressful. When we are called upon the situation most dont have to face in their normal lives the decisions you make in a short period of time have consequences that can cost your life and the lives of the innocent around you. Theres no opportunity for do overs were further discussions. There is the term of the Community Posted outside of the door of the classroom to remind us the initial success and a total failure. The trouble displaced by the bomb squad on that january 6 event were extraordinary as they are required to navigate the multiple devices in and around the Critical Infrastructure buildings in the general population in addition to protesting within their scene. By all accounts, it is my opinion the bomb squad challenges professionally and renders the device safe avoiding harm or injury to themselves or others and are able to collect evidence to determine who is responsible. Im proud of the community we represent and we will continue to advocate to ensure they have the appropriate resources, personnel, training and technology and when they are faced with these challenges in giving the communities safe. Thank you and i will yield back to the chair. You are now recognized for five minutes. Im a retired veteran of the k9 unit and transit authority. I began my career in 1992 and spent the last 12 years of my Career Training k9 teams. In this role i had the responsibility of training from the time they were acquired through their certification and maintaining Training Records for handling and during the career ive conducted for supervised in excess of 35,000, sorry, 35,000 explosive speaks, reallife training scenarios utilizing throughout washington, d. C. Metro systems. Many of my friends and colleagues from my 25 year career responded on january 6, 2021. Im here today to answer any questions you may have or provide any information that is, that the committee deems useful. Id like to thank the chairman as well as all of the other Committee Members for your help in Law Enforcement and i yield back my time. Thank you. We appreciate the time management and with that length of testimony, you could become a very popular witness for a lot of committees. You are recognized for five minutes. Good morning, chairman, Ranking Member torres and members of the committee, it is a pleasure to be with you this evening. Last week i was asked to consider the status of the investigation regarding the subject that left two devices before the rnc and dnc back in january of 2021. As a Founding Member of the Evidence Response Team im familiar with the way the investigations are conducted. After i required i took the position as an instructor to leading scientists where i teach classes on crime scene processing into the forensic investigation of mass disasters and one thing i tell my students as ms. Torres eluded to come of the fact just doesnt exist. As a product of Television Shows that depict Forensic Science as a Silver Bullet that is omnipresent and can almost immediately point to specific subject, often times it is just unavailable and investigators have to rely on other types of investigative techniques. Many times, that is directly related to the identity of a suspect. By way of example, the olympic bomber placed for devices over a twoyear period despite forensic examinations during that time. The identity remained elusive and it took eyewitnesses to come forward with that said they saw a suspicious man in a specific type of truck. Prior to the blast that killed a Police Officer, it was those tips. Similarly, Ted Kaczynski was active for 17 years, despite the third zero forensic examinations of over a dozen devices during that period. His identity remained elusive primarily because he went to Great Lengths to obscure. It wasnt until the manifesto was published that his brother provided a tip and that is what brought focus, not the years of forensic examinations. Responding to the bombing of an air force station that we were processing on the crime scene and recovered pieces of the pipe bomb and a specialized customized timing device. As we collected the dividends and we were preparing for the submission of the laboratory again, the witness came forward and indicated they saw a suspicious man driving a unique motorcycle before and after the blast using air force personnel we developed a suspect and within 24 hours we were able to execute a search warrant and that individuals home and recovered to viable time bombs and they were able to use those for the scene, but it was a witness testimony that pointed to that a suspect. As for the january 6 suspect it appears that it was a conscious effort to disguise that persons identity making the personal identification difficult. From what ive seen in public records it appears they were comprised of very simple and common components available almost anywhere and that makes it difficult to trace and to determine who purchased those components. I understand hundreds if not thousands of interviews conducted in tens of thousands of video images have been reviewed and hundreds of tips. Sadly sometimes cases go cold once the forensic evidence has been exhausted and all the leads have been covered new information is recovered. So have a milliondollar reward may one day provide the key that will unlock this case and at that time im certain the dedicated men and women. Thank you all. We are going to enter into the question portion now. As some of you may not have participated in a hearing like this. We will alternate between republican and democrat back and forth. Each member will have five minutes and so many have multiple questions so we ask that you be thorough but concise and again we are looking for facts to review what happened and see how we can go forward and with that, one of the things eluded to a lot of times it is going off of evidence after the fact. Fortunately we do have video of the placing of the pipe bombs as well as the response. So today we will be utilizing some u. S. Capitol Police Footage to help us break these things down. Now as most of you know, there is not any audio associated with of the videos. We didnt hire a hollywood producer to produce sound effects, but what we did do is overlay the Radio Communications over the top of the video to save time so whatever audio you are hearing is actually where we have put the Radio Communications commensurate with the video. According to the fbi, both devices were planted of the night before, but they were discovered more than 16 hours later in the early afternoon of january 6, 2021. One of the questions the subcommittee is interested in as a part of our oversight responsibilities is the Law Enforcement response after the devices were discovered specifically setting and maintaining a perimeter around those devices. At roughly 12 42, the first device was discovered near the rnc at approximately 1 212 civilians to walk past to the rnc and entered the capital metro station directly across from the alley where the first device was discovered. The Capital Police footage shows no Police Presence and to prevent the traffic in the safe perimeter. Approximately one minute later the Police Officer makes the following broadcast over the radio, can we please play that tape. I have people walking down first street right in front of the republican club. Someone isnt doing their job. Assistant chief gallagher, you can clearly see in the video the role on top of the sidewalk post that indicates theres already been the response and presence there. Should the safe perimeter have been established by 1 21 p. M. . Thank you, chairman. For incidences of this nature first officer on the scene will be setting up the incident command and command post and part of that procedure is to identify the parameters and set up limiter for a safe distance away from a potential hazard. So yes, there should have been a perimeter at that location. As the incidence of an ongoing we are dealing with of the eastbound and westbound of the capital as well so manpower is very succinct and any officers that come to help set up a parameter are coming from another area. We dont just have Response Teams waiting around to set up parameters so there could have been a delay in getting there. In your opinion, was there a safe perimeter . Looking at the video, its hard to tell. With the assistant chief, its setting up a good perimeter like that for the safety of the bomb squad to act. In your opinion there should have been. Is that a priority from your experience . Responding to an incident to such as this, it is extremely important for the parameter to be set up in a timely manner to act appropriately. Okay. In your opinion, was there a safe perimeter of the rnc . From the video, it is tough to tell. To establish the command post and set up a perimeter a safe distance away it was difficult to tell not being familiar with the area, but these are phases so when the suspect devices first noticed, then the first responding officers set up a safe perimeter until the assets can arrive on scene. Why is it important to establish a secure parameter perimeterearly on and maintain t perimeter throughout the day . Why is that a prayer ready to quarantine off that area . When the bomb squad is responding into setting up their own internal command post if you will regarding dealing with the incident or the potential id suspect packages, it is extremely important for the establishments in the parameter to make sure that everybody is both civilian as well as even other Law Enforcement personnel are far enough away and a safe manner so the bomb squad could act appropriately. Now to complicate things even further as the assistant chief said, there were multiple instances going on. There were other instances going on at the Democratic National committee. A similar they failed to secure the perimeter at a much larger scale. The device was discovered after the discovery Law Enforcement should have established a secure perimeter. At various points in the afternoon with before and after the disruption of the device. Once they do their job and disrupted the device we had instances before and after. Lets go ahead and play this thing. And again, this is a montage. We have the vehicles drivingg right past the package. We need to make sure that officers are posted right now and make sure nobody walks past this package. That is where the package was, by the park bench there. For example at 2 01, the officer incorrectly announced fire in the hole at the rnc. When they meant to say dmz. At 2 05 the officer correct the mistake and assess fire in the hole at the dnc. Mr. Black, what does the term fire in the hole mean . Generally the term would be indicating indicative of an explosion is about to happen. Its a range term when we are about to detonate a charge on an explosive range the term would mean the explosion has gone over. In other words lookout, clear the area. What could this mistake lead to when dealing with multiple scenes in other words theres two going on in very similar names, but again it was corrected at some point. But what could a mistake like that lead to . Declaring fire in the hole that the wrong location . Yes, sorry. Obviously information is critical with whats going on at a particular event is absolutely critical for the command multiple devices and locations and other problems in other areas complicating communications for any. Sorry i called you mr. Dennis, my fault. Do you have anything to add to that . I concur. An Unmarked Police car drives next to the robot as it prepares to disrupt the bomb. Is it safe for a vehicle to drive within feet of the device whether it is viable or not after fire in the hole has been called . That would be negative, it wouldnt be appropriate. Mr. Dennis, should any civilian or Law Enforcement officer be allowed in close proximity viable or not once fire in the hole has been called . No. Thank you. As you can see from the montage there were several Law Enforcement and civilians in the area. Even one whether its a plain clothed Police Officer looking at the robot while it was there. It seems to be based on what youre telling us that its highly inappropriate and potentially a deadly. Next i would like to discuss the failure to discover the devices on the morning of january 6 Vice President elect harris arrived at the dnc through the garage entrance. Prior to her arrival the secret service conducted a sweep of the building and its exterior. Based on the records obtained, the secret service used two uniform division k9 units and Ten Secret Service agents to conduct the sweep. Let me say before we roll the tape, we are showing all these videos during my time in the beginning to save time later so others may have questions based off of these videos, so its just not for this line of questioning. Lets roll this tape at the security sweep. It is a picture of the building on the right for clarity of where the device is. At 9 28 a. M. A handler conducted a sweep outside the dnc and at what point they allow the dog to inspect an area directly behind the device and as the handler begins to pull away it causes him to lose balance. Lets look at that portion for clarity. At this point when he goes down and turns to the right, you can see his leg kick out a little bit. Of the actual officer. What is your assessment of the effectiveness may i ask a question . I think we are probably about ten minutes into the five minutes. We are taking the additional time so we can save time later so we dont have to replay the video so its going to take a little additional time. What is your assessment of the sweeps in the video . It appears to me that handler and the team is doing an open sweep where the dog is in front of him and he is letting the dog dictate where to go. Unfortunately the dog is out of the screen whenever the handler has his left arm and leg go out and it could be one of two things. A change of behavior out of our view or by giving that extra lead and that is what happens, your foot goes up and hand goes up and you dont want to put unneeded pressure on the dog by pulling on the lead, depending how welltrained the dog is. It appears hes trying to give more lead to because hes had a change in behavior. We can to see what that a change of behavior is and it looks like the dog decides hes going to leave that area. He could have some kind of change of behavior. An overt would be a final response. But that would be a changed behavior. I understand there is a wall and its hard to determine how it is moving but he decided to leave and walk away. Your assessment of the sweep of the vehicle. When we start training depending on the experience of the dog we tend to put it on a pattern where the dog is out in front and it looks like has some kind of experience hitting the spots you need to hit. The dog turns away from it like it had no interest and then it goes into finishes and you start at one corner and go all the way around and sometimes overlapped by a little bit. Thank you. This will be the last video because there is also video being used for questions by the rest of the committee. This is the controlled disruption of the device. The robot arm is in the bottom left of the screen if you watch there. With this one quick question, mr. Dennis if the device is successfully disrupted, what do you hope to see . In this case the galvanized pipe bomb you would have the end cap and that is what the target was. Its usually what bomb technicians will do and you see the end cap somewhere in the location of the shop they placed potentially. Anything else could also be laying there in the immediate area. Nothing unusual . Okay, thank you. Now ms. Torres for five minutes. Before the clock begins, i have a question for you. Given that you take 15 minutes between all of you you have 25, 30 minutes in addition to the 15, theres two of us we have ten minutes. Are you going to allow for us to extend our time . The chairman has full discretion over the management of time and as i explained we want to make sure to get the videos up front. I will be flexible to state in a reasonable time if needed we can do an additional round of questioning but we have so many other people and committees we want to be timely going forward. Okay. This information, these videos that you have played are used to the minority and as it has been the common subcommittee to not provide a minority with information other than the time and at the meetings placed its really unfortunate. Im going to put this on you. You are refusing to be honest and upfront as to what exactly are we going to hear or what is the purpose of the meeting and a second guessing our Law Enforcement officers, three years after an incident seems like a cheap shot. Its like spitting in their face after they gave up so much. So many of them had major injuries that were suffered under the violence of this angry mob unleashed on the capital. While the first video was played you said at the time was around 1 30 when they were discovered. I had to look back at my own personal record of where i was and what i was doing at 1 30 that night or that afternoon and i can tell you that at 1 30, several buildings of the capital had already been forcibly entered, breached by this angry mob. So to say to the Law Enforcement community you should have been here instead of over there, you should have been over there instead of over there, we didnt have enough officers. We didnt have the officers that were present that were here with their own bravery to defend themselves. They had the equipment that it takes in order for them to handle the mob that was unleashed on them by the former president. Thank you for your presence here. Our colleagues in the minority have repeatedly asked the director and the fbi to testify publicly as to the status of the investigation into the pipe bomb and why it continues after its three years. Is this policy, is this the policy that you had to observe over the years as the Law Enforcement professional . As far as the investigation taking three years or more. As far as giving public testimony to be an update of how the investigation is going. Generally they are not discussed. It can be counterproductive not only to that investigation, but the future investigations. What do you mean counterproductive . Certain techniques undertaken to identify a suspect and if those types of techniques are divulged, they can change their behavior and destroy evidence, and then again that information is available for future so not only could it hurt the current investigation, but it could compromise any future investigations if you are having to deal with that same person, correct . The same presenter type of crime. The same suspect. Because they would change their ammo and it would make it that much difficult for you . Yes. And any action to cover their crime . Correct. The perpetrator could be sitting here in the room with us, correct . Their identity is currently unknown. It could be the perpetrator who planted the bombs could be watching us on tv . Correct. How could revealing this information put this u. S. Capital in danger in the future . Specific information. Investigative tactics and techniques are usually not publicized so the suspect is if one has been developed wouldnt destroy evidence or change the behavior that would enter those techniques less viable. Some individuals including members of this institution have questioned the signs found at the dnc and rnc and the fbi statements state both devices were viable and could have been detonated as a result of serious injury or death. Based on your years of service, individuals and government make unfounded allegations that the fbi lying about a particular investigation, does that post a challenge to the fbi . Public perception is important. The men and women that are doing the work every day. Why is that perception so important . It relies on information and a Good Relationship with of the public and communities they serve. Any kind of negative publicity is to be expected sometimes but you work through that to get to the logical conclusion. By breaking that trust we compromise any potential witness that could come forward and give us information . The public should be certain any information would be accepted and followed through to its logical conclusion. Thank you. And i yield back. The gentlelady yields. For clarification based on the Ranking Members comments, we are not here to discuss the investigation of the fbi. The hearing was noticed to the minority and public over a week ago with a description of what we would be discussing which is not a partisan fingerpointing but trying to get to the bottom of what may have gone right, what may have gone wrong and how we can improve the security of members of both parties here and as a courtesy to the minority, the videos that we played here today were sent to the minority yesterday for your review so it shouldnt have been a surprise. I now recognize the gentleman from virginia for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. I would agree with the gentlelady if we didnt have enough officers that day it would create a number of different issues plus we were unprepared. As a Capital Police we are just unprepared for those numbers. That being said, you said in your testimony and i quote it is my understanding both of the devices were fully functional and viable pipe bombs however it is unclear whether they would have gone off on their own had they not been rendered safe by the bomb squad. How do you form that opinion if its unclear they would have gone off on their own . The viability and functionality of the bombs of the pipe bombs that were placed at the Republican National committee and the Democratic National committee, those statements come from our trained, capable bomb attacks that when they were presented with a picture of the device on scene, they didnt have the context of when they were planted, how long they had already been sitting there. They were looking at a picture of a pipe bomb that to them comprised of all the components. They didnt know what was insulated. What made you think it wouldnt go off . Based on the experience thats all i need to know. I have great concerns, and i understand that there is a dilemma with manpower. Lots of vehicles are passing by here. The one at the headquarters was found at approximately 1 05 but if i understood the testimony correct, and tell me if ive got it wrong, the buildings they were not told to shelter in place until 1 30. In both your oral and written testimony you said 1 30 p. M. The personnel were told to shelter in place. There were people and weve already gone over the perimeter that wasnt secured. But the Vice President elect of the United States is inside one of the buildings and theres a 25 minute delay before anybody says you might want to shelter in place. Thats not acceptable, is it . Thats not accurate. Tell me why its not accurate. When the initial call came out, they found the pipe bomb and they immediately went up and alerted the agencies at the dnc which could serve in the metropolitan Police Department. Then they moved over to do exactly what they were training to do which is to establish why did the testimony say they were told to stay in place until 1 30 and the Vice President elect leaves driving past to the pipe bomb that was viable according to that is correct and the timeframe between when we set up the incident command post into the shelter in place, there were teams not u. S. Capital Police Telling the dnc to evacuate as well. So there was cross communications. You said you hope one day they would identify this individual, but wouldnt you agree that in light of the fact that the parameter was not secured because there were two reasons to secure the perimeter, first and foremost to protect the lives of people, correct . And second, to preserve evidence isnt that also correct . Yes. Without having secured that perimeter, we will never know if there was any incriminating evidence that might have been found in that perimeter because youve got pedestrians walking past the robots and numerous vehicles including Law Enforcement driving by where they are about to detonate in the vicinity. The crime scene is ms trying to find any evidence you can later use to link a suspect to the site . The device itself was intact at the time. It was placed in the evening hours on the fifth end is located on the sixth. Are you sure . Heres what a good criminal defense will say. To tell me if you dont think this sounds reasonable from the defense attorney standpoint. You identify the individual that placed what is believed to be the bomb hours ago, and you had a search for the secret service and at the dog didnt light on an explosive so it wasnt the device that was later determined to be the pipe bomb because it wasnt picked up by the bomb sniffing dog. Doesnt that sound like its going to happen if they identify the guy in the video . It may be a good question but its flawed in its logic. I dont think so. I think i win that case. I yield back. The gentleman yields and recognizes the Ranking Member for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. I will admit i am more confused than when we began a short time ago. You indicated you invited the fbi to testify but i have no idea how they would have contributed the conversation of what happened moments after the bombs were discovered, so im not sure i understand that and if i understand the line of questioning to suggest failure by the United States Capital Police regarding the establishment of the perimeter and in some questions now about the handling of the canine sweep. Im also curious i will ask this rhetorically. Im not sure what the poster behind you is. What is donald trump fraud hutchison conspiracy, stolen meadows, i have no idea what any of this has to do with the hearing in question this is part of the Opening Statement and illustrative that the select committee that was tasked with investigating this years ago only mentioned the pipe bomb five times. They mentioned the size and font of these words how many times they were used in the investigation to show point that no one has taken a real look at this until the committee that has pure oversight regarding the fbi. The fbi was invited because they conducted at the post incident investigation of the device itself. The fact that the posters there signifying other things, but i will leave you to your answer. Im not sure and im no expert on Law Enforcement, so i dont want to leave without giving you, assistant chief, who ive been the privilege of knowing now the last couple of years some opportunity to describe. First of all, clearly a number of things were going on at the same time. These incidences were not in isolation so maybe you could respond both to the questions. I dont know if there are allegations but suggestions that both were mishandled and talk about what was going on in the context of the things happening that day if you could. Sure. As far as an allegation of failures by the u. S. Capital Police Officers, i want to be upfront and honest of the Capital Police havent shied away from the failures of the today not with of the officers that were outnumbered. Eighty officers had injuries and we lost two of our heroes one of them a day after january 6th. We have 2,000 pages resulting from the reports and the honorary study that goes into detail with what needs to be improved. All aspects of the department needed improvement. For context of that day, while we are dealing with the dnc, which i want to preface off the capital grounds so the jurisdiction is the metropolitan Police Department. When the bomb techs showed up at the scene, the metropolitan Police Department had a technician that asked the bomb techs to take the lead on the scene because they show up with equipment so we had our robot and they didnt have the robot that would have taken a lot more time to get the resources there. The perimeter set up was a little chaotic. We were dealing with a pipe bomb, a couple blocks away and a pickup truck that had 11 mock cocktails into ammunition in it and at the same time, officers were suffering the injuries from the west front of the capital and east front of the capital. We had many calls of an officer in trouble. As you can for context, i would gladly give up a perimeter not being perfect to be able to get officers responding to help their brothers and sisters who are calling for help at the capital. It was a chaotic day and mentioned that we dont have enough capital Police Officers. We dont have any mutual aid on site yet, so what we call a suspicious package and im certain my colleagues seated to the left of me would agree all of them have some issues within an initial parameter getting the resources there. Now when youre looking at the dnc where you have multiple jurisdiction the Capital Police are already stretched beyond their limits and officers are getting injured we have 10 33 calls. We didnt have enough people to get down there immediately to set up this parameter not one call for pedestrian could enter. Officers did the best they could we just didnt have enough resources. Its not to mention that for three hours the occupant of the white house had at one time failed to call out the National Guard that could have aided in support of the personnel at the capital. I only raise that because the name behind it on the poster. I want to ask a question in my remaining seconds. The question from the gentleman earlier was about the failure of the canine unit to discover the bomb. Or the dogs infallible, do they ever miss something . Is likely they would have missed or is there something would you necessarily conclude that it wasnt there during the sweep as the gentleman did and it was placed somehow afterwards . No. The dogs are dogs. Sometimes they are good and sometimes having a bad day. Theres several means reasons they could miss him explosive. Is it possible that in your judgment the dogs simply misted, that it could have been there during the time of the sweep and the dog just didnt take it up, is that possible . Yeah, anything is possible. We dont have a video of the actual sweep around the explosive device. I would say as a team you follow the pattern when you are doing this weekend once youve completed, its done. Its no longer secure. From what ive seen of the stills of the pipeline, if im doing a sweep with my canine and come across an apartment with that undergrad, im not even going to try to get them into the cone, depending on which way the wind is blowing because once i say that, its a very suspicious package and if you really want to upset a unit, go ahead and tell them youve cleared that reusing the canines. You are literally stepping away from that as far as you can, securing the perimeter making it incredibly large and shrink it from that point on. Im sure theres a reason why there is a still on the righthand side of the sweep, but its like a split screen i dont know what happened in the video on the other side. Many reasons the dog might have gone to the bathroom. It could be different reasons. The gold has already been searching for minutes and now hes getting exhausted. They only have a certain amount of time. Reaching the conclusion that it wasnt that the device wasnt there and the dog would have caught it, thats not necessarily to depend on the actual maker of the device whatever the explosive was inside of the pipe. For clarification, it was for references to where the device was since the edge of the camera didnt cover that so we could see where the device was in relationship to the dog and another point of clarification, it was done by the u. S. Secret service it wasnt the Capital Police. For a another point of clarification, it may be hard to understand maybe we are not used to having a nonpartisan unbiased hearing actually try to get to the bottom of it. We are not fingerpointing but figured out what happened, what went wrong and right. With that i recognize the gentleman from north carolina. I will reiterate your point. It is impure to point fingers. Its a learning exercise and its our job to provide a supervisory role and to review information and help us all prevent what happened in this event. There was a lot going on to your point, but also lives were at risk and some very important cues missed and the baseline is how to prevent that from happening in the future, not pointing a finger at anybody. So theres a redo, see where it went wrong to try to prevent a problem again. So thank you all for coming. I just want to continue the line of questioning. Who was responsible for the command into the control of the pipes . The u. S. Capitol police had the incident command and bomb squad for the dnc scene. And that would have been a bomb sniffing dog . The dog at the scene was a deepest secret service canine. And what does that mean . Its one of their bomb sniffing dogs. There were vehicles that were allowed to enter the active crime scene and that has been im not a Police Officer or anything but i would tell you that would be an anathema to put a crime scene should have, is that fair . What types of additional training or equipment would be beneficial . We are trying to learn from this episode what would happen in the future to prevent such a problem with command and control problems that we would have in the future. For events like this, any largescale events on capitol capitalgrounds we have funding g mutual aid so that we are not understaffed and we have the contingency plans in place to be able to handle old people areas of capital grounds with mutual need onsite. In addition to that we havent implemented training post january 6 for a host of reasons with incident command that deals with the incident command and the parameters for all sworn employees of the Capitol Police. Thank you. 1 09, the operator of the game or not, i really want to get into this camera issue, facing the garage they began to zoom in on the position of the pipeline. At 1 40 p. M. , the same cannot was turned away. The second camera on the west side was also turned away at. Both of the cameras, neither was turned back. Why, do you have any idea why the cameras removed . That was be speculation on my part of who was working the cameras. We had to train the command Center Specialists spoil the ones that operate our u. S. Cp. The cameras, but there not be a time log of who would be working at this specific time . I dont have that. With regards our cameras at the dnc, i am aware of the speculation of the rules. There were three that captured various aspects. The two that you mentioned, and i dont have the camera number off the top of my head but it does move away and it goes up by the u. S. Capital power plant where the command post was the second camera that you mentioned that starts to capture certain areas then it looks like it starts to check on street closures and various other aspects of the response. There is one that captured of te entirety of the scene and captures where the pipe bomb was located and the protect d that was there, the canine, the counter surveillance agent and continues and catches the robot coming down as well as the disruption. So we do have the whole complexity of that scene. I think its important to note we have 1800 capital cameras. About these are manually moved, correct . If somebody had to move it away from that. As to why speculation, the cameras wouldnt have been moved back because we probably had a two or three camera operators in the command center and they are also dealing with these things. Absolutely understand. To the chair mans point, we are trying to gather information. This isnt a partisan issue, this is protection of the executive branch and legislative and everybody else. A quick question. Those were both functional pipe bombs, correct . Yes. I yield back. The gentleman yields back and recognize the Law Enforcement officer for five minutes. Im going to try to move through this quickly. I have a lot of questions i want to get to. Chief gallagher, during the course of the events on january 6, 2021 the radio dispatch and they were overwhelmed. With of the amount of information being transmitted the number of events occurring at the same time ensuring that they were on appropriate channels and providing accurate info. This provided an Accurate Information regarding the roots of civilians from the dnc and of the incident for the post locations and wrong callback numbers and in many cases they expressed audible panic and confusion. Ive been on the other side of that radio when this stuff is hitting the fan and you need people on the other side of that radio that are able to calm everyone down and get them the correct information. Can you briefly describe Capitol Police . They are responsible for, basically the lifeline. Anything that they need to go through the radio the dispatchers are trained and highly competent dispatchers set up to handle multiple incidents. They got overwhelmed like the officers got overwhelmed as well. This is sort of not on the same topic but from my knowledge or the civilian members of the Police Report of the fomc . They are not. They are training. Do you believe that they receive adequate training . I do believe they receive and continuous training. Moving to something different. Dispatch finally proceeded to provide an incorrect location for that incident commander. The second officer answered over the radio in an attempt to correct the statement by providing two locations that were also. This led the dispatch to dispato erroneously callout another incorrect location for the pipe bomb. I know the answers to these questions and im just trying to get to a point is this kind of confusion common . Isnt common with a regular incident. Multiple explosive devices it is chaotic. And in one that we never operate and obviously what we would want to happen is all the information to be crystal clear, precise and what we need. Did the failure to establish command reach the perimeter . I would say the lack of resources and officers in the metropolitan police that was their primary jurisdiction as well be able to secure people to traverse it. Last i just want to comment on the remarks in the beginning that we are here to point the finger. We serve a purpose and that is to provide oversight to the Capital Police and its also our job to provide the resources, the training and everything necessary so you can do the job that you are supposed to do and you made a comment that you and the department have not shied away from the failures of that day. If that doesnt mark the remarks of a true leader, i am not sure what it does and i go to serve under your command any day. Its our job to make sure those failures, thats what we are here to do, we are not here to point fingers were talk about defunding the police or to say monday morning quarterback. Theres no time to monday morning quarterback any incident to Police Officers have. We are told until they pin the shield on their chest they have no idea what Law Enforcement officers do every day but it is our job as a part of the committee again to propriety you everything that you need. And when you have incidences like this we are not going to take the time to critique it were to say what happened, what went well and what failed, then we are not doing our job and neither are you. The purpose is to find ways we can improve. If the protocol failed, we need to do them. If the training failed, we need to do it better. If theres opportunities for more resources and we need to work to make people safe, then we need to foster those relationships. I think the gentleman. That was a good way to wrap up the hearing. I appreciate everyone being here. We have the chief with us today and the chairman of the Capital Police union. I think Everybody Knows who he is. I appreciate all the witnesses being here and i would like to just offer one piece of clarification to make sure i understand this right and i think it was mr. Kind we were talking about the u. S. Secret service and the dogs. I want to understand what your response was that if its not the dogs responsibility to identify the device but the handlers. So the fact that it was seen and close by, would it not be the actual handler who should have noticed it and not just relying on the dog. Youve got the dog and the handler working for areas. A stronger sense of smell than we do. The dogs purpose is to find what we cant see. The position is to locate the areas but as you are doing a pattern search, you wouldnt even put your dog on an explosive device. Any suspicious package. To get a better understanding of how this works i commend the Capital Police for all they went to and understood that the line that day. We want to continue to do the oversight as said not to point fingers but to make sure that we do correct what was done wrongly and we depoliticize the Capital Police that makes it able to do your job according to the ways you need to without the pole politicization aspect of it and make sure you have the resources to do a difficult job. Again, thank you all for being here members of the subcommittee may have questions and i can pretty much assure you that we do. We ask that you please respond to these in writing. We will respond without objection each member will have five legislative days to insert additional material into the record or extend the remarks if there is no further business i think the members for their participation and without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]