Transcripts For CSPAN3 Lectures 20240704

Brigadier Charles Young i titled the paper or this lecture a destiny deferred because often times when you read about or if you just do a Google Search and at and examining charles life his best friend is often quoted his best friend w. E. B. Dubois and. Dubois defined youngs life as a triumph tragedy and a big part of the research. And my goal as a scholar is changing narratives. And so this is what were going to discuss this evening. Looking at this destiny of one of the finest black officers to serve, according to many of the of his followers from the late 19th century into the early 20th century. So its surprisingly, Charles Young was a humanities, you know, they i keep reading articles all the about how the the humanities are dying. Oh my god what are we going to do with this . But Charles Young at the academy he excelled in the and actually was terrible math in fact he failed math i had to get tutor help to do it but. He was a polyglot. He spoke german fluently. French and spanish. He spoke multiple dialects of french, including Haitian Creole and regular french as well as he spoke a little tagalog and a couple of other liberian really sorry languages. So it not surprising he was also a poet a pianist. He played the violin. He wrote music. He also was a playwright and, an author. And so this excerpt here is from a poem that he wrote ode memorial day and its a much longer poem is like five stanzas so i just took the last one in despair you trying to read it and im trying to you know the cadence of it is rather interesting im going to read this quick for you so african suns released in this proud land to land the virtues of the veteran army gra to their children finally to the names upon the nations honor roll to tell them black blood mingled with with the whites that right should rain and freedoms robes be bright tell them of wagner pillow of the the sacrifice all the free do not on this memorial day their word to you of nor ever from this example pay your freedoms price in labor. Love service and sacrifice, let not oppression. No, no dark deses pale in your hearts, in your hearts your countrys altar fires. And when we about the creation of memorial day, it was started by continue veterans black veterans to push for the honoring of blacks war soldiers and wanting to Honor Service and so young and this poem in the 1900s hes doing something that not a lot of black officers say today would do without outwardly criticizing the racial policies in the United States at this point in time. When he wrote this, he was the first ever africanamerican to be promoted to the rank of captain at and at the time he was he wrote this. He was the only serving black line officer in the military there were other black officers in the military, but they were not serving in the field. And so he someone who is very aware of position and who he and what he represents. So this evening we are going to embark on a journey to explore the incredible life impact and memorialization of Brigadier General Charles Young. The title of our talk is a destiny deferred. It not only encapsulates the essence of youngs journey, but also serves as a metaphor for the trials and tribulations faced by this visionary leader. He also is an advocate for civil rights, a remarkable soldier, and, more importantly, when we understand and embrace the value of Charles Youngs leadership, we would help us to understand, in the value and importance of grasping what black military service meant beyond the lens of only seeing the color of the flag or seeing only green. So lets begin begin at the beginning, almost before we delve the extraordinary journey of Charles Young, lets take a moment to understand the context of his time. James Webster Smith, the first africanamerican to be to be formally admitted into west point, and he is going to before only admitted in 1870. It wasnt until 1866 with the Army Reorganization act that we get the ability for africanamericans to serve fully into the american the regular military, the regular army. And it is not until 1877 that you get the first black west point graduate which is Henry Ossian Flipper in 1874, James Webster smith who ended up being henry flipper his roommate after his first year he he actually gets kicked out of the academy after with only one credit left and so when Webster Smith leaves it leaves only henry flipper there and he eventually graduates a few years later, after henry flipper the next west point black west point graduate is john hanks. Alexander who was the second. And then the third and final black west point graduate in the 19th century, whereas Charles Young and he graduated in 1883, and when think about this. Position hes in, right in 1884, you the first black chaplain to be formally admitted, the first ever black chaplain to serve in the military was Henry Mcneal Turner in the war. But after that, its not until 1884 that we get henry vinson plummer, who was a follower of Henry Mcneill turner to actually become official, First Official, black chaplain in the regular army in the calvary and at one point in time in 1884, after he joins its going to be henry vinson, plummer, john hanks, alexander and Charles Young all serving in the ninth calvary. At the same time. And it doesnt unnoticed right. But after Charles Youngs untimely death, you do not get the first black general until 1940. And it is one of Charles Youngs followers. Bishop oh. Bishop, im sorry. Im bishop general benjamin ho. Davies senior people are more familiar with benjamin davies, his son, because of his work as a tuskegee airman, his advocacy for black leadership. And so when we think about this perspective in looking at okay this is the in life and the world that Charles Young is thriving in or serving in its a very clear message in regards to when we think about the need you can fast forward today in about military leadership black military leadership right because if you are familiar with the Supreme Court decision you saw that you know there is a exclusion for the military academies because they know they have to recruit minorities. And so this is a part of this long legacy of black military service and Charles Young is a part of this legacy. So who was he really . And whats lets go back to who he was and where hes from. Young was born in 1864, in a town called mays lick, kentucky. He was born slavery. However, his mother and father liberated themselves, escaped to ohio and ripley, ohio and his father joined the civil war, joined the union army and fought in the civil war. And its because of his fathers service, right . Its because of his fathers participation in war. And he says this that influenced his to serve because he understood that this was his right as american citizen to serve in the military and that he was honoring the legacy that his father had set for him. So young gets admitted to west point and understood then that during this time, the black community, this era, cultivated a joy and racial pride and black soldiers represented in u. S. Military uniforms because there was power in the uniform. The black soldier served with the cornerstone for racial uplift in the reconstruction and postreconstruction in jim crow america. The significance of their presence reverberated not only on the battlefield but also through society, contributing to the Broader Movement toward civil rights, inequality so young throughout, his life exemplified the spirit of leadership and duty. Made this impact possible. Youngs point experience taught him the discipline and the brutality of silence. And when he saw the type of treatment that africanamericans are receiving and understood his position, he did not remain silent. He chooses not sit by and say or do nothing. He knew what it meant to. Be treated as a man without a country, but he endured because he saw his duty as survival his aim in life was to do his duty for race and country. One of the important aspects of youngs life in regards his relationship and how he differs, say, from the first black west point graduate, is that he is going to emerge large and embrace his role as an educator and as carrying the mantle of the race for everything that he does. And what does that mean . It meant that his failure wouldnt just be his failure. His failure would be the failure of the entire africanamerican community. When henry was discharged, charged, dismissed after his court martial. The military used dismissal as, a way to basically say that, look look, we let we let them in and look what they did. They deserve to be officers. They dont to lead. Theyre only good at being told what to do. And so flip is dismissal is going to haunt black officer hours well into the 20th century. In fact, in 1925, a very scathing report was released after world war one that talks about the of the soldier. And in this was done by the Army War College and in it you know they make point to point out that black officers during world war one were pretty much a failure. And that the policy of the army should be adopted, which it is going to be, that black soldiers should only be commanded by white. Now, this is something that course, when thinking the Long Civil Rights Movement and thinking the advocacy and the fight to get blacks soldiers to be commanded by black officers while even serving in a segregated military the importance of military at the black and colleges and universities are going to make a huge difference. So this handsome young man up here is the second black workforce graduate. His name is john hanks. He and young ended up being roommates at west point. But unlike, say james, mr. Smith and henry flipper, they actually were friends and they maintained their friendship. They ended up serving together in the same regiment, the ninth calvary and fact Wilberforce University is going to be the First Black College to to have a official Science Department that is supported by the us military and what they end up doing is they get john hanks, alexander come and and hes there for two months. But unfortunately he dies of aneurysm while getting his haircut. And at the time he was a First Lieutenant and so his rank mattered it mattered in the army because. Only people after a certain rank, a certain term of service, can serve it and teach a college universitys. And so the army was in a conundrum because the president of wilberforce was like, yeah, were sad that john gone, but we need another. So come on, give us young and the army has to make an exception and allow young to go to wilberforce and it saddens him up until the you know up until his death here he often reflects on his mentor, his friend. Because he never stopped missing him and when we look at this this is a image of an encyclopedia in which you have these converse africanamericans were having a conversation about the direction of their people. And at the top, you can see little magoo. Maybe you could see this as colored officers or no colored. Right. This is endorsed by none other than dusky wizard himself, Booker T Washington. But its important to understand why the community wanted black officers, black soldiers and having that leadership because it signifies essentially this ascension beyond just being servants and what that position in regards to not just being a leader in the military, you are a leader. The community oftentimes, a lot of the veterans who are going to serve in this work with the Civil Rights Movement, they are going to be veterans, right . Theyre going to Charles Hamilton houston as the Legal Counsel leading the way for desegregation with the brown versus board of education in the acp. Its to be medgar down in mississippi fighting jim crow, segregation. Its going to be the leadership of black officers and veterans, world war one, who are going to push back against the racial violence that happens during red summer, because oftentimes when we talk about red summer, its only, you know, from the perspective of being killed. But in chicago, that wasnt the case because they had veterans setting up snipers, men picket. Folks are. How in any who but thinking about the importance of military training and this is one of the reasons why you have that consistency of africanamericans because the use of military training to defend their communities, their families is crucial because guess what they couldnt do during slavery. So now they can have guns and they had them and now they do fight back. And they did so, for example, the tulsa massacre right. How many of you watched the watchmen love show, right . It begins, unfortunately, with it. Well, fortunately begins with the tulsa massacre and for the first minute when that show aired, apparently people didnt. A lot of people had no idea. Theyre like, what is this . This happened. They were dropping dynamite from planes. Wait a minute. Their box people, this is america. Oh, gosh, no. Well, yeah, but this he is a the main protagonist. Well, the the the the father of this of the First Official superhero in the watchmen universe was a world war one veteran. Hes wearing his uniform and hes hiding and gives the gun his wife to do what . I dont know. But hes not doing anything. What actually happened was the african blood brotherhoods up a perimeter around the jail where the white mob was trying come and collect the man accused of raping a white woman. He didnt, but they were mowing down the white people because they these were trained former veterans from world war one. And they had set up a perimeter to protect and so essentially the whites were not prepared for that response. And then it escalated to the dropping of dynamite planes. But essentially in the press for years, the tulsa massacre was called the tulsa race war. Its one of the closest, most this countrys ever had to a race war because it lasted several days and it was armed. Blacks were armed whites. And looking at the import of colored officers training, black soldiers and importance of the uniform and what that service and training meant to black selfdefense, to the self esteem of young black men was the force behind Charles Youngs decision to not only want to work wilberforce, but also wanting to black . Soldiers in liberia and continuing his service at wilberforce on multiple occasions because he was committed to racial uplift, he was committed to pushing back against the barrage of negativity and hatred put forth that African Americans going to see on a daily basis living in jim crow america. So this is his commitment. But there is another person i was told that im too hard on flipper. Im not saying that i favor Charles Young or something. But want to kind of provide opposite to Charles Young, and that is going be henry flipper. Henry flipper, the first African American graduate from west point. He was very proud of that uniform. Hes very, you know, dapper young man from georgia. And he is going to write in 18 after you graduates. He writes an autobiography i think hes like 23 or something or 22. But he lived enough to write a very thick autobiography. I you know, i read it, of course. Its very its a wonderful resource but its very interesting. You think about the mentality of this person. Youre like, wow, you wrote a autobiography that a bestseller by the way. And he is going to outline, unfortunately, in his autobiography, his politics and hes going to criticize James Webster smith, the same James Webster smith that had to go through two separate Court Martials after first year and one in which the president , the United States, had to intervene because they were trying to push him out for, literally just existing and flipper criticizes smith. He criticizes smith for communicating with the press. He criticizes smith in regards to after he gets kicked out the column that he writes detailing his entire experience. And so flipper, you know, he going to set a very interesting precedent regards to his appearance or public persona with the African American community, because when he is Court Martialed. He was surprised by the lack of support that black press didnt give him to coming to his defense, he just like, wait, why arent you coming to me . I mean, i am the first black. Like, what happened . How could i have in my suit whats right. But i mean, juxtapose to his writings and juxtapose him to Charles Young, he sets a very interesting precedent. He is Court Martialed before young graduates, but he a very different approach approach me than young flipper believed that socially should be the natural outgrowth both of a similarity of instinct this is what he quote said to him color was no consequence in the question of socially quality. He argued that the lack of education and the absence, proof of equality, of intellect were the real obstacles for the africanamerican. This is an 1876. Thats the real obstacles. A civil war just ended like less than ten years. Well, over ten years ago. But thats the real obstacles, is lack of intellect and education. Yes, yes, it is. Yes. Okay. The only way overcome these obstacles according to flipper, was through education, not through a quote unquote war of the races equal rights. He contended, be a consequence of proving ones through education. Now, on the hand, Charles Youngs approach to social equality and racial uplift was nuanced and a little bit more dynamic. He did not reject the importance of education because he himself of course is an educator. And like i said, is a humanities person. So hes going to teach foreign language, latin, etc. And military science at wilberforce. And he is going to not respond to say anything about young, you know biography. But his actions of speak to his his idea of what was advocating in in 1876 so young that duty leadership and service an active advocacy were essential components of the fight for racial equality. His journey was marked by tireless commitment to advocating for justice, both and beyond. The military. And so i want you to really think about this idea of racial uplift. Okay. When charles would sign his you know, people would mail out their headshots and stuff and he would people wanted to buy his headshots, he would oftentimes sign them for race in country right. Because thats what and how he conceived of his service, david gilroy wrote an amazing biography of Charles Young called for race and country. I think you should really read, but when looking at what hes doing, you see here this him a top his horse dolly and is the little boy hes saluting here. Now, if you can picture this what is you seeing . This is a young man who is living in jim crow america and hes seeing a black man in uniform, a black officer uniform. And hes proud to have a salute. And young is looking at him like, okay, as a good one. You know, because the one thing that his students often talked about was that he was very strict and he was going to drill you into got it right. And when we think about seeing this, what this young man would expect in looking up and seeing being told how inferior blacks are, that theyre not really their subhuman, all these things that are being barrage to them in their in their psyche and that type of trauma the idea of uplift and saying that no, theres nothing wrong with being a or daughter of africa. Theres nothing wrong with having skin. Theres nothing wrong being black. He writes a book he writes a book called wait minute. How i cant find it. Its military. A military race of the i cant remember it. Sorry, but he writes a book. Yeah. Edited out . No. Okay. Never mind. All right. So look, so writes a book. That exam means the various essentially military prowess of the various, quote unquote races. Globally. And it is his response to the eye, the scientific pseudoscience of the eugenics and the pseudoscience of saying that were a subspecies therefore, you know, they theyre not good soldiers. In fact according to the navy, the best type of sailor and soldier was white male from or nebraska iowa ohio didnt make the list. Yeah yeah i would be offended seriously like wait a minute we we were land locked theyre two and how are they better sailor or soldier but young rather i think. This is his playwright side of him where says well actually if you look at the the science that, youre using the best type of soldier actually would be someone of mixed race because. In the argument made by white scientists is that, you know, africanamericans make great foot soldiers, but not great leaders. And whites make the best leaders. So hes like, well, wouldnt it pertinent say, okay, if blacks make the best soldiers, then combine the two and there you go, you got the perfect soldier, mostly. Okay. But i mean, this is young writing as an active duty officer, publishing this book. In 1907 and thinking he writes a play in 1910 about his idol toussaint louverture. You know, this is the guy who beat three empires in the in the haitian revolution. And one of his first jobs outside the United States was to serve as the military attache to haiti. He is going to map and write the Haitian Creole language book for military intelligence. This is the marines use when they invade haiti from 1914 to 1932 they use his maps they use his reports right. But young is an Intelligence Officer or he is going not only serve in haiti, but end up going to go to liberia liberia. Was very of being colonized. Liberia, of course, is the colony founded by the American Colonization Society and this is where they resettled a lot of people, people of free people of african descent the us to liberia so that they can go to africa and so the liberian government who is under the leadership of the descendants of africanamericans plead with theodore to send some sort send a black officer to come train the liberian military so they can defend themselves because when they had a white officer who was training the military, that white officer tried to usurp the government and take over. Theyre like, we dont trust this, so we want to make sure we get someone who can act. We we believe theyll be better. Okay, so, you know, Charles Young, is going to be suggested and his friend Booker T Washington is going to really campaign on his behalf to get him to be the attache to liberia. And young jumps at the opportunity he like i said earlier, he is w. E. B. Dubois is best friend. And if you know anything about Patrick Innis movement, dubois is the originator of panafricanism, one of the originators of panafricanism, and a part of youngs growth evolution as an officer and a leader is that he becomes a strong advocate of, a panafrican identity. And unlike his report on haiti, which he advocated for u. S. Military intervention when he goes to liberia, hes very clear. Hes like the united needs to support and protect liberia from the possibility of ever being colonized. It needs to maintain its independence. And because of his term and his service in helping to reshape the Liberian Frontier force. He is going to get the spingarn medal, which is a medal water from the naacp for his reorganization training and diplomacy. Liberia. Its because young of work that the policy of washington actually is able to open a school in liberia in monrovia and up until the 19 when when i say the forties and fifties the Liberian Frontier force was always advised raised by a africanamerican. And young started this he it twice and the liberian government of today a few years ago has their relationship with the us military and its the Michigan National guard that actually works with the liberian and a part of what theyre doing currently for example is sending over black women ncos to teach the liberian soldiers how to take orders from women. Because theyre just like i to. But i have to stare. Yes, its a black woman, drill sergeant. Apparently the tough, tough lady. But when looking young life, he also is going to when he returns from liberia, he gets the spingarn medal. Hes going to ask his soldiers to to the antilynching fund. And they do happily, regularly contribute money to fight antilynching in the United States. And when he gave a speech at stanford hes going to criticize this idea of accommodation is education, this idea of not standing up or advocating black civil rights. And so young is doing all of this. And by the way, hes also a great, great fighter in the field he serves with general pershing in the hunt for pancho villa. He actually ends up saving pershing when they got lost in in in mexico because the mexicans did not appreciate the Us Government coming in to their looking for pancho villa. So they would oftentimes give them bad intel and several this happened. They get lost in the middle of a desert somewhere and young actually gets to come to pershing rescue and one of the things that pershing does is that he recommends young for promotion. He supports young becoming a general. Pershing is, impressed by his leadership, the field. So when i say he is going to influence the generation of black officers, it just because hes a great educator, its because they follow in the field. The first set of black officers who are going to graduate from des moines during world war one. A good portion of them are going to be black ncos from the four black regular regiments, other known, otherwise known as the Buffalo Soldiers. And so they are going to have come in contact with with young as well. Good. About 20 or 30 of his officers. He was students. He trained at wilberforce are also going to graduate and so he is mentoring and shaping black military leadership. But unfortunately during world were one you know he thought he due for another promotion he gets he gets seen and he is going to get promoted to full board but it is recommended that he you know, get discharged for health reasons. And this doesnt sit well with young right he is to push back against idea of having to be forced. Because he thought his fitness was good so what did he do he was like going to do a performative protest. Hes going to protest and hes going to ride the 500 mile track from. Ohio to washington, d. C. And and here you have young when he arrives at secretary of war newtons office iss the illustration done from seventies ebony magazine of young with emmett j. Scott this was a this is after because he washes so images got prs continuing the legacy of Booker T Washington but in thinking about Charles Youngs what it does is it creates a lot of bad press in the africanamerican because they are outraged his dismissal and lead a campaign to get him reinstated. Because theyre like you want us to fight because wilson wants an all volunteer military for world war one and africanamericans like we dont want to serve without black officers and we want Charles Young to be one of our generals. And so there is this Serious Campaign that causes problems for, the Wilson Administration, because what they dont is negative publicity. And so what happens is that, you know the title of the the slogan is give us charlie young. Right. This is going to be what theyre andre following his joury right from ohio to washington, d. C. They follow his journey in the press, him and his faithful horse, dolly, charlie, dolly. But this is a serious protest in the community. So much so that wilson has to do something so. What do they do . They recall young, but they put him with the ohio National Guard to train other officers and. He does it. And he happily and eagerly does it because. He knows that these are the people that are going head to fight in the in war one or the great war me. And so he used to prepare them well the wars over you know he did his ride in 1917 1918. The war is over but here have the this is from this is the official itinerary from his trip. I thought it was so cool that that the national africanamerican history museum, washington, d. C. Has document basically his entire trip and its important because this is what the community is following. Theyre what theyre there eagerly. They dont have. But if they had television, you definitely a camera crew following them around just totally see this in a reality show right . Because, i mean, have you ever seen naked and afraid . Oh, my god, those people are crazy. But i mean, looking at. I could just see them like some hes if dark he riding a horse and youre just like well were going to stay in a hotel because the cameraman like we not riding a horse but you know this is something that the black community took as a victory, right, in that their campaign because it pressures Wilson Administration now secretary of war newton doesnt agree and they dismiss him immediately. He arrived in d. C. , however, because of the bad publicity, of the pressure, because of, you know, the germans are using this in their propaganda they have to do some sort of concession and so this is a recall him to service in the ohio National Guard, not in the regular army. Well, after the war is over, the recall him to regular service. Oh, he too sick earlier but we need you to go be a diplomat again. So they send him to liberia again and they send him to do their intelligence on the varioUs Governments. Africa and on a trip to nigeria, he contracts disease and passes away in 1922 he gets a full military honors burial in nigeria. But the African American Community Campaign for a whole year to bring his body back to the us and it goes a two city tour. He arrives first in new york city and thousands of people line the streets to watch casket ride down the street street and at his eulogy in new york. W. E. B. Dubois stated that if the United States government retired a sick man. He wrote it murdered him by detailing him afterwards. Africa got rest. Colonel young, second soul. Forgive our souls, no rest. If we let the concerning him drop over light drop overlaid with lies if you ever want to see be angry at a given a eulogy go read the voices eulogy of young because i understand something this is a 1923 you know boys lived until 1963 right he lives a long time and in his papers going back into up until the 1990 6192 he still talks about charles yeah he missed his friend right right and at his eulogy he in and hes so angry hes so angry because he felt that that youngs death was unnecessary for and the day of his funeral becomes a National Holiday for africanamericans africanamericans Charles Young they actually get celebrate it for decades after death on various College Campuses and his funeral at Arlington National cemetery. In 1923 was the largest it had ever seen. It was larger than this. The funeral of the unknown soldier. Its one of the rare times hes only like, ihink, the fourth soldier to ever use at this time. And im 23. Hes only ever the fourth soldier to use the for his funeral. And when looking at his life and legacy its interesting to think that its a descendant of flipper flipper who actually is carrying his son in some ways is modeled his leadership style after Charles Young because it is under his tenure that he gets promoted posthumously to Brigadier General in 2022 and just this year so great defense lloyd austin who retired as a three star general who is from thomasville, georgia. Hes a descendant of henry flipper flipper. He became an honorary member of omega sci fi. That is a black fraternity. And one of these, the second honorary member of, omega sci fi was none other than charles. You you secretary defense, just this fraternity brother. And you look at the policies, right . You look at the the life in regards penny flipper. There is no flipper day ever was the person who most honored him was colin powell kept the little bust of him on his desk. And. When thinking about the dream deferred of Charles Youngs life. When you go to thomasville, you know, they like to have his uniform and everything. And so they put him right next day, put they put austins, you know, right next to henry flipper. But it struck me as it strikes me as odd me because when i look at austins life and his career, he doesnt really seem like a flipper person. He is a west point graduate, but. In looking at his legacy, he seems more to be someone by Charles Young rather than henry. Charles youngs life and legacy. He served as a powerful metaphor for the journey, progress, his style, his political activism, military leadership rooted in a deep sense of duty and commitment to racial equality, really stands as a testament to his enduring human human spirit. Youngs journey is a reminder that embracing ones duty in the pursuit of justice, equality is not just an aspiration. Its an obliga lation and his life continue to guide us on our path toward, a more just and equitable and inclusive future. So want to stop here. And say thank all for having me. This has been true pleasure and thank you for me with this exploration of the life impact and memorialization of Charles Young mays continue to all to carry the mantle justice, equality and duty. Thank you. University of akron akron. I. We are now open for questions if there are any. Whos the first biracial . Yes. So you mentioned how he went young back to liberia. Do you think the government wanted to just get him out of the country on purpose and, like since he was this outspoken figure, you they wanted to send him away so he wasnt as and then yeah eventually he got sickness. Do you think they had any of his thoughts in mind of like, oh its just get rid of i suppose. Well the question is do i believe that young was purposely sent to die because he was causing too much, too much press and. I know the boys would believe that and in some ways you know young when he gave one of his final speeches to the men of omega sci fi he laments about going to because hes like he knows that not going to come back but he also is very clear that hes going to do his service because he actually could have retired. He was retired once, but he chooses to go and do his duty because he what that represents do i think the federal government or government, the military was. Well, this is not a wilson crowd. Right. Right. So i dont know. I mean, its possible. I wouldnt ive thought about it and. I would say that it could be one of the underlying reasons behind it because it is this this was a wilson administra ation and we all know how racist woodrow was and he didnt appreciate the kind of press that the black community in Charles Young got. And so what he asked the secretary defense to do this possibly was there also still a need for intell in africa because the United States navy is going to protect liberia from and they are invested in maintaining liberia independence and so its its a win win for them to get rid of them. And also maintaining their positive in africa. Isnt your question. All right. Any other questions . Braves soul, come and get me on tv. Yes you lose. What made you want to study African Military history at. I saw it as that needed to be done. Read a few books that really told a very one sided kind of conversation and what my like my purpose in some ways as a historian is to tell a different that will reshape and when i read some a few books and then i read some of these books about the Buffalo Soldiers i was really it was, you know, it was really because these scholars were like, oh, look, we discovered there were these heroic black soldiers and, you know, theyre just forgotten. And like, well, who forgot them . White because black people didnt them. I mean, bob marley literally had a whole buffalo soldier, but no mean the fact is, is that that when thinking about the the the legacy in regards to whos writing about African American soldiers, the black dont forget theyre publishing about it. Theyre still doing Charles Young day. So no, never forgot about these people. But when looking at how a lot of these some of these earlier scholars on, like Frank Schubert and willing William Leckie when they wrote about black soldiers, it was always as if theyre rescuing some found history and therefore never really delving the mind of the soldier. I dont write traditional military history. Right . Im of a black military like im im pushing for the creation of a new subfield of black military studies. And its because of the aversion in the realm history towards that people have towards military. But also im not really into battles, you know, whove outflanked someone. I do like playing call of duty, though. Im not. But and i have played civilization. Liked it too. But, you know, i, i think that the Type Military im more of a social historian so i really want to get into the motives and what people build out of it because looking at how africanamericans their service, its different. Its always been different. And if we actually embrace that difference, then maybe you can have a totally different type of conversation in relation to. You might have a recruitment issue, but thats what kind of got me into it. You know, reading books, books change your world. All right. Thats a great question thank you for asking. Yes, you are on television there. Oh, coming up. Yeah. So oftentimes when discussing africanamerican history, a lot of times we go over to the Civil Rights Movement, political leaders and educational leaders and military leaders. Do you think theres another area that we be missing that maybe should have more study . Yes. The studies, the creation of ecologies. Right. So a big part of what some of these soldiers end up doing, for example, is they found institutions of higher learning. Lincoln university at saint louis in jefferson city, missouri, was founded by an entire regiment, 67th black regiment from the civil war, right. They created a whole college that still exists today. They found towns right. You look at the when i talk about the wire black people in minnesota. Well, they create enclaves. So you look at this trajectory in regards their spaces and the area that theyre you know, the the world theyre creating to insulate themselves from jim crow america. So black geography. Right. So, for example, one of the largest expat communities in mexico, for example are africanamericans. And looking at those geographies. And youre like okay, why are they leaving . Or you that consistent need to leave is america our home . Can we go somewhere else . Marcus garvey like i, the voice of panafricanism, the voice leaves, right . Hes he goes and he moves to ghana. Ghana invited him, thinking about the reaction to because theres in movement, theres power creating a safe space. So African American soldiers founded a whole town black. The new mexico. Former black chaplain allens allensworth founds allensworth California California as a place to escape that. So looking at know say black geographies ecologies these important in thinking about well what are some of the different ways that blacks not only empower themselves but fight against the oppression without having to pick up a gun or something so moving getting and leaving like the great migration you know with theory is it literally changed the entire Political Landscape of this country, right. Because the white south was like, wait, why are you leaving . Well really. How are you leaving . Woodrow wilson even wrote to the governor of mississippi because he was like, stop cutting stop the trains leaving. And theyre like, well, we got to keep them. Youre like, well, sir, maybe stop trying to kill them. How about that . Because and now you at mississippi, who anyway. So yeah, i mean, theres so much that can you you look at that you can cover so much in regards to civil rights different types of leaders the leaders that you dont know about this so much uncovered history in that you have these because you can even take an take an option of looking at well were there really only ever just massacres or is black selfdefense a real thing in regards to this the west . Right. And why is there such a large black expat in mexico . It goes back to slavery right, because more people fled south than did north because mexico was culture and the mexicans actually kill the slave catchers. So we with a win for them. Im not advocate of violence, anything like that. But im just saying. All right. Yes. So we do passionate memorialize zation of young and flipper, right . Yeah. We had an earlier date. What do think of the memorialization of civil or Civil Rights Movement . Because there were people long before Martin Luther right going to going see gandhi and learning from gandhis followers. And then, you know, then i went there not as much. So do you see, that there needs to be a change in narrative since you are into the long civil rights. What do you think . Oh, i absolutely agree. I mean there is, for example, a part of my research that its a new that i discovered a couple of years ago is the black pacific right. So you have the of African Americans who are going to be stationed in the philippines in japan long before world war two, right in. China, big africanamerican soldiers going to be fighting in the boxer rebellion. You do have these bridges and and lines of communication open in which, like youre saying, there other people going to gandhi to study their ways. In fact i mean, Wallace Thurman, the person who his jesus and the dispossessed is going to be heavily influential in dr. Journey and he goes there because Wallace Thurman went gandhi but this is not the yall know much about right . While thurman you know we talked to because he thought about the camino relationship with humans and nature and you know, think about lord of the rings, right . Youre like all the elves were singing with trees and stuff. But i mean, while steinman was doing it before talking, i guess, i dont know. But mean really in in i with you. Right. Because even looking at the different types of movements of resistance, you know, gandhi etc. , really his strategies very militaristic and in many ways because a very militant Nonviolent Movement and understanding what militant means. Right, because how we are taught about dr. King is not who he really was and so he was very in his nonviolence as a strategy and as like you said we have to change that narrative. So, you know, i hope you do some research and you bring up some of these names because i think that would be great because itll spark more conversations in regards to pushing back against, because you look at how kings legacy has been usurped by some people who literally are misremembering or like dr. King would be a fit. No, i think would be offended by you. But really understanding you know me like when tell my students i was like, you do know he was a socialist right. What, you mean he was a socialist . Good. Did you not see the Poor Peoples Campaign . He literally outlined whole. He has to socialist right plan for helping to fight poverty in the us because it wasnt a race that was a poverty for blacks and whites and all poor people. And then he got killed not being a conspiracy theorist, but, you know, but i mean, really, you know, we do need to because like its very obvious that theres a very clear message thats trying to be taught in our history, in our in us history. And its unfortunate because oftentimes when you students in college, some of them are really genuinely angry that theyre like my teacher lied to me. But this isnt what happened like the confusion, my parents lied. Obviously. Yes, its very so thank you for that question. Yes. Kind of continuing up the idea of memorializing, remembering figures. Do think that kind of the resurgence of henry flipper do you think that was because for some people it was he was less outspoken about issues of race than young was. You think that that kind of discourse meant disarming of black figures . Do you think that that might have motivated a rise in kind of remembering . I do, i think, like i said, this also, you know he gets his name cleared. I mean, trust me, there was a fight like. It was a High School Teacher who helped lead fight to clear his name and how awesome our history High School Teachers, by the way. Right. He got to love them. Its a history High School Teacher who had a like his students at project and you know that kind of pushed got the flipper family involved and then you have you this is also the tail end of the armys kind of reshape its image. What are we going to do they this is they theyre going to exonerate flipper theyre going to exonerate the entire regiment that Theodore Roosevelt dishonorably discharged. There was only one person left alive. So they were like. Well, here you go. Its 25,000. We owe you. This is like, okay, i guess, but i mean, they are going to really push for reshaping their image if we dont see race we only see green and take the language and rhetoric of young and then you take the. The fact that for a long time you know, coal colin powell is going to be a key figure. For example, he helps in the Reagan Administration. He is going to help design operation are urgent fury which was the invasion of grenada and i kind of like why they invoked the United States invading grenada because they actually werent anything relating to communism. Maurice bishop just trying to push back. He was a socialist and you know, the Reagan Administration was like, no, yeah. So i mean you have a very his politics aligned the idea of we only see green and so this is what were going to support right and. You know like i said, i read an article him recently where someone called him a civil leader, which is like. Project number 27. I have write a new article about the conservatism of henry flipper because. Actually, no one has. And so ive writing that and because its a conversation that is uncomfortable, especially when i talk to thomasville, georgia, residents, they really love flipper down there. Who . Well you know, it said seize the is interesting guy but i mean pushing back against yes he is a trailblazer who deserves he led a wonderfully extraordinary life but we also have to include his politics and hes purposely reacting against the idea of civil advocacy and that matters. You know questions. Yes i was wondering so with flipper he had the he didnt really obviously didnt share lot of the point of views with other africanamericans. So i was wondering was like his viewpoint maybe common or like held by middle class bourgeois africanamericans the time because like one of the slides was talking about how like the class black community really helps w do what dubois im sorry im blanking. Yeah, i hope thats do voice a lot and like the he drew a lot of support from them but clearly had a very, very different position from flipper. So like was flipper like a total outlier here in this or were there others kind of like him in that time period . So hes not a total outlier. However, black conservatism, of course, is that has, you know, has existed. But the kind of conservatism that he promoting was a bit unusual like i was telling the Group Earlier he wrote how was completely opposed to the antilynching but he was a he would be the best example i could think was he would fall into the category of a libertarian of today in regards to his views of limiting the us right he doesnt the Us Government should be involved in civil rights anything like that. And so not a lot of africanamericans fall into that category, but there are other black conservatives mean because in Washington Four is going to be conservative during his his period he is of course famously to be opposed by. You know thomas me sorry im Monroe Trotter in w. E. B. Dubois. And Monroe Trotter wrote the book the guardian. And so famously, theyre going to talk about, you know, a lot in the press, Booker T Washington, but flipper is someone who who criticizes black soldiers. And after he did that a couple of times they stopped his little letters. Right. Theres like theres only so much conservative, much we read what theyre not going to do is how allow him to be a opposed to black soldiers who the hes criticizing will be the soldiers in houston who in the houston uprising, which ended up being the Largest Court martial in u. S. History and, them killing white police who had been harassing, in fact, you know, whole situation because a white Police Officer was assaulting a black woman in a black soldier intervenes to protect and he gets attacked. And so flipper comes out and criticizes them. The entire black population, the press is supporting them. Them love here. Here you. Theyre disgraceful that was the last letter he wrote that got published. So mean. Its just its interesting dynamic in about black conservatism because you have George Schuller who was also a black soldier in world war one. But his conservatism is in on par with flippers. It just isnt. So he is a little bit of a unique case in something. Yeah. So in your experience as an educator, how do you approach those conversations with students about like their own reconciliation with what they thought they knew and, whats fact like. Do you i hate to use word backlash, but do you expect like a reaction . And then whats, i guess, reaction to their reaction . And so one of the things they do encourage is civil conversations. So their reaction, you know, i, i want them to fully articulate argument and then i ask them to really think about what theyre saying, right . So, you know, when you have students who are coming for, for example, when i have students write a do research on and have to write something on the chinese exclusion act, right. Most of them had never heard of the chinese exclusion act. They didnt even know that there was a period where the u. S. Banned. The 1940s. Chinese immigration and so when you have them so they try to relate it to, say, modern day immigration issues, youre like, well, so you have a problem with immigration . So lets talk about this because. This is also this is the 1882. And youre having this upsurge in immigration from everywhere in the us at ellis island. But theyre particularly focusing on one asian group, the chinese theyre not initially theyre not stopping japanese, theyre only doing the chinese. And this was purely racial politics. So you you get you you walk them through like i what i try to do is walk them through with this think this out, lets talk it through. Also, i, you know know, students are really like to challenge that much not because im hard or something its just you know once you once i walk through and they see what happens when you walk it through, they dont theyre just like, well, that makes i mean, a lot of times whats happened with students who are distraught from what theyre in my class is, that it makes them want to learn more. And so im very appreciative. Thats one of the things i love about being a College Professor is the thirst for knowledge that happens where theyre like, im going to do research as much as possible to prove you wrong. And im like, yes, go do it. Go look in, prove me wrong. I want to i dont might go bring me some credit credible sources thats not a tik tok video video because im credible sources to back up your argument and i had no conceding if im wrong and its interesting the conversations they they do they go do the research and they want to talk about it and some of them are being history majors so im just like here i did what i was supposed to do ten year thing, you know, thats but i mean, this is so you know one i also you see i like to make things im going to make it as light as possible right. I when i do have to talk about difficult conversations, i always, you know give a trigger warning, but i am going to engage with typical i dont shy from it. I actively want to because a big problem is that a lot of times when people engage the conversations, they dont know how to engage civilly. And so thats part of learning the classroom. And so, you know, thats i think is part of my responsibility as professors showing them how to engage with conversations in a calm. Even if it has to be a little light. So it but you have to push them out of their comfort zone. And thats the only way you can grow because its growing pains. So i always tell them that at the beginning of class im like, look, youre going to hear things that youre not going to like going to make you uncomfortable, but itll make you you will grow, you will learn. So answer your question. Yes. Oh, question. Oh, i, you know, covering Young Service and especially the service of folks like colin, where in your do you address the dichotomy of africanamerican service where service may not be wanted, the country where they feel like that they want to you know provide something for a nation that doesnt want it. And where does that fall in your research. Well, a big part of it is when you think about the service, africanamericans. I like to go back to quote from david walkers appeal and in that quote, david walker says, this country is more ours and it is theirs. And during the civil war, prior to the allowance of africanamericans to serve in the military, there were debates in black churches. Right, about whether not they should serve a brian taylor, a really great book about this. And one of the things that they talk about is, is this country really is the thing that comes up is this country is ours more so than it is. Anyone else is. And this is how they conceive of their service. It isnt more so, yes theyre serving america, but its also something that one, theyre going to participate, liberating other black people. But also this is what you do for the country you live in. And so they may not you have the situation that like i think vietnam really changed a lot of things in regards how people perceive service. But africanamerican serves to the in the military didnt really decline after vietnam its pretty much stayed the and at times like i said it went up so yes you have the change perception of. Well the you know this is not our war you know this is not someone elses war. But right now what youre getting is the opposite. The other side of it is one i can benefit from this service if i just do this of time, i will benefit greatly if through these benefits x, y and z. And looking it from a perspective of how is going to benefit me, my family and a big part of that also getting job skills training and it opens a lot of doors. So this is harkening back to original, i mean, a big part of why blacks served right after the civil war in. That military service opens doors. If you think about the post office right, for a very long time, that was one of the easier pipelines in regards to africanamerican. They go work the post office and its a service deal and great and they stay there for whole time. They dont have other jobs and it is very interesting when you look at the war in the post office, because i dont it. But the desire to defund post office when you start looking at the numbers of people who work in the post office theres a high number of africanamerica arrogance and all of a sudden, well, we want to defund the post office, the Postal Service and this directly courier correlates after vietnam. Youre kind of like, oh, okay, but Postal Service postmaster and black communities, there was something there was fighting. So theres a long history of that ties into service. You wearing a uniform. So its all kind of intersections, right . Oh, thanks for your question. I dont know, how are we doing on time . Okay. These great questions. Thank you all. I love it