Transcripts For CSPAN3 Lectures 20240704

By democratic president ial candidate Hillary Clinton at a rally in california state university. Followed by a 2016 super tuesday speech by republican president ial candidate and florida senator mao bio in miami. Exploring the american story, watch American History tv saturdays on cspan2 with a full schedule on your Program Guide or watch online anytime at cspan. Org. I am happy that you are here to join in this discussion examining thatlife of Brigadier General Charles Young. I titled the paper, or this lecture a destiny deferred, because oftentimes, when you read about or you do a Google Search and examine Charles Young, his life, his best friend is often quoted, that was wb the boys w. E. B. Du bois who defined his life as a challenge we will look at this destiny of one of the finest black officers to serve according to many of the of his followers, from the late 19th century into the early 20th century. Surprisingly, Charles Young was a humanities person. I keep reading articles about how the humanities are dying. What are we going to do with this . But, Charles Young, at the academy, he excelled in humanities and was terrible at math. He failed math and had to get tutoring. He was a polyglot who spoke german fluently, french, and spanish, he spoke multiple dialects of french, creole, regular french, and he spoke a little catalog tagalog. He was a pianist, he played the violin, he wrote music, he was a playwright. And an author. This is from poem he wrote, ode for memorial day, it is much longer, five stanzas, i just took the last one the cadence of it is interesting. I will read this quickly, shal africs sons be leased and the proud land, the land of virtues the Veterans Army grand, to teach their children fondly to extol, the flames upon the nations honor roll, tell them of how black blood mingled with the white, thatright should rain and freedoms robes be bright tell them of wagner, do not forg on memorial day, do not stray from this example, pay your freedoms price in labor, love, service, and sacrifice, let not oppression and no dark desires pale in your hearts your countrys altarfires. When we think about the creation of memorial day, it was started by contingent veterans, black veterans to push for the honoring of black civil war soldiers. Wanting to honor their service. Young, in writing this form, in the early 1900s, he is doing something not a lot of black officers would do today, outwardly criticizing the racial policies of the United States. At this point in time, he was the first ever africanamerican to be promoted to the rank of captain. At the time, he wrote this, the only serving black line officer in the military. There were other black officers in the military but they were not serving in the field. He is someone who is very aware of his position and who he and what he represents. This evening, we are going to embark on a journey to explore the incredible life, impact, and memorialization of Brigadier General Charles Young. The title of the talk is a destiny deferred, not only encapsulating the essence of his journey, but also serves as a metaphor for the trials and tribulations faced by this visionary leader. He also is an advocate for civil rights, a remarkable soldier, more importantly, we understand and embrace the value of Charles Youngs leadership, it would help us to understand the value and importance of grasping what black military service meant the on the lens of only seeing the color of the flag or only seeing green. Lets begin at the beginning almost. Before we delve into the extraordinary journey of Charles Young, lets take a moment to understand the context of his time. James Webster Smith was the first African American to be formally admitted into west point. He is going to be formally admitted in 1870. Until 1866, with the Army Reorganization act, that we get the ability for African Americans to serve fully into the the regular army. It is not until 1877 that you get the first black west point graduate. Which is henry flipper. Webster smith was flippers roommate and gets kicked out of the academy with only one credit left. When Webster Smith leaves, it leaves only henry flipper who eventually graduates a few years later. After henry flipper, the next black west point graduate was John Hanks Alexander, third and final in the 19th century was Charles Young who graduated in 1883. When we think about this position he is in, and 1884, you get the first black chaplain to be formally admitted, first ever black chaplain to serve in the military was henry mcneal turner, in the civil war, after that, not until 1884 we get henry benson plumber, a follower of turner, to be the official First Official black chaplain in the night covering in the regular army. At one point, in 1884, after he joins, it will be henry benson plumber, John Hanks Alexander and Charles Young in the ninth calvary at the same time. It does not go unnoticed. After Charles Young untimely death, you do not get the first black general until 1940 and it is one of youngs followers, general benjamin o. Davis sr. People are more familiar with benjamin o. Davis jr. Because of his work as a Tuskegee Airmen and his work with black leadership when looking at, this is the legacy and the world that Charles Young is thriving in, or serving in, it sends a clear message in regards to when we think about the need, fast forward to today, about military leadership, black military leadership. The Supreme Court decision, there is an exclusion for the military academies. Because they know they have to recruit minorities. This is clearly a part of this long legacy of black military service. Charles young is a part of this legacy. Who was he really . Lets go back to who he was and where he is from. Young was born in 1864 in a town called mays lick, kentucky, born into slavery. However, his mother and father liberated themselves, escape to ohio and, ripley, ohio, his father joined the civil war, joined the union army and fought in the civil war. It is because of his fathers service, because of his fathers participation in the war, he says this, that influenced his decision to serve. Because he understood that this was his right as an american citizen to serve in the military. He was honoring the legacy that his father had set forth. Young is admitted to west point. Understand that, during this time, the black community of this era cultivated a joint and racial pride in having black soldiers represented in u. S. Military uniforms. Because there is power in the uniform. The black soldiers served as a cornerstone for racial uplift in the reconstruction and post reconstruction jim crow america. The significant of their presence reverberated not only on the battlefield but also through society. Contributing to the Broader Movement towards civil rights and equality. Young, throughout his life, exemplified the spirit of leadership and duty that made the impact possible. His west point experience taught him that discipline and brutality of silence. When he saw the type of treatment that African Americans were receiving and understood his position, he did not remain silent he chooses not to sit by and say and do nothing. He knew what it meant to be treated as a man without a country. But he endured because he saw his duty as survival, his aim in life was to do his duty, for race and country. One of the important aspects of youngs life in regards to his relationship and how it differs from the first black west point graduate, is that he is going to emerge and embrace his role as an educator, and carrying the mantle of the race for everything he does. What does that mean . It meant that his failure would not just be his failure. His failure would be the failure of the entire africanamerican community. When henry flipper was discharged, dismissed, after his courtmartial, the military used his dismissal as a way to basically say that, look, we let them in, but what they did. They dont deserve to be officers, they dont deserve to lead, they are only good at being told what to do. So, flippers dismissal will haunt black officers well into the 20th century, in 1925, a scathing report was released after world war i which talks about the use of negro soldiers. Done by the Army War College who points out that black officers in world war i were pretty much a failure. And that the policy of the army should be adopted which it is going to be, that black soldiers should only be commanded by white officers. Now, this is something that, when thinking about the Civil Rights Movement and the fight to get black soldiers to be commanded by black officers, while serving in a segregated military, the importance of military training at the black colleges and universities will make a huge difference. This handsome young man is the second black west point graduate, his name is John Hanks Alexander. He and young were roommates at west point. Unlike smith and flipper, they were friends. They maintained their friendship and served together in the same regimen, the ninth calvary. Wilberforce university is the First Black College to have an official military Science Department which is supported by the u. S. Military. What they do is get John Hanks Alexander to come. He is there for two months. He unfortunately dies of an aneurysm while getting his hair cut. At the time, he was a first lieutenant, his rank mattered, it mattered in the army, people after a certain rank and term of service can serve and teach at colleges and universities. The army was in a conundrum because the president of wilberforce was like, we are sad john is gone but we need another , give us another one. The army has to make an exception and allow young to go to wilberforce. It saddens him. Until his death, he often reflects on his mentor, his friend, because he never stopped missing him. When we look at this. This is an image in which you have these conversations, africanamericans were having conversations about the direction of their people. At the top, you can see it, it says colored officers or no colored soldiers. This is endorsed by the tuskegee wizard, booker t. Washington. But, it is important to understand why the black community wanted black officers committed by black leadership, because it signifies this ascension beyond just being servants. What that position represents in regards to not just being a leader in the military, you are a leader in the community. Oftentimes, a lot of the veterans who are going to serve in the Civil Rights Movement, they are going to be veterans. Right . They are going to be Charles Hamilton houston, leading the way for desegregation with brown v. Board of education. It is going to be megan rivers in mississippi fighting against medgar evers in mississippi. Officers in world war i pushing back against the racial violence during the red summer. When you talk about red summer, africanamericans were killed, but in chicago, that wasnt the case. They had black veterans setting up snipers picking people off. Thinking about the importance of military training, this is one of the reasons why you have that consisted the youth of military training to defend their communities, their families, is crucial because, guess what they could do during slavery . Now, they can have guns. They had them. They do fight back. And they did. For example, the tulsa massacre. How many of you watched the watchmen . Love that show. It begins with the tulsa massacre. When that show aired, people had no idea. This happened . They were dropping dynamite from airplanes . They are bombing people . This is america. Gosh, no. Yes. But, he is a the father of the first superhero in the watchmen universe was a world war i veteran. He is wearing his uniform and he is hiding, gives the gun to his wife to do i dont know. The african blood brother and set up a perimeter around the jail where the white mob was trying to collect the man accused of raping a white woman, he didnt, they were mowing down the white people because these were trained veterans from world war i, they set up a perimeter to protect. The whites were not prepared for that response and it escalated to the dropping of dynamite from airplanes. Essentially, in the press, for years, the tulsa massacre was called the tulsa race war. The closest this country has ever had to a race war because it lasted several days and was armed blacks versus armed whites. The importance of uniform and what the service and training meant to black selfdefense, to the selfesteem, of young black men, was the driving force behind Charles Youngs decision to not only want to work at wilberforce but also wanting to train black soldiers in liberia and continuing his service at wilberforce on multiple occasions. Because he was committed to racial uplift. He was committed to pushing back against the barrage of negativity and hatred put forth that africanamericans would see on a daily basis living in jim crow america. This is his commitment. But, there is another person. I was told that i am too hard on henry flipper. I am not saying that i favored Charles Young or something. [ laughter ] but, i want to kind of provide a opposite to young. That is, going to be henry flipper. Henry flipper , the first africanamerican graduate from west point, he was very proud of that uniform. Dapper young man from georgia. He is going to write in an autobiography. He is 22 or 23. He lived enough to write a thick autobiography. I have read it. Wonderful resource. Interesting, you think about the mentality of this person, you wrote an autobiography which was a best seller. And he is going to outline, unfortunately, his politics. He is going to criticize james Webster Smith, the same man who went through two courtmartials when the president had to intervene because they were trying to push him out for literally just existing. Flipper criticizes smith for communicating with the press, in regards to, after he is kicked out, the column he writes detailing his entire experience. Henry flipper , he is going to set an interesting president precedent in regards to his public persona. With the africanamerican community. Because, when he is court martialed, he was surprised by the lack of support the black press did not give him. He was like, wait, why arent you coming to help me . What is happening . Look how cool i am in my suit. What is happening . [ laughter ] juxtaposed to his writings, and him to young, he sets and interesting precedent. He is courtmartialed before young graduates but he has a different approach than young. Henry flipper believe social equality should be the natural outgrowth of the similarity of instincts, this is a quote, color was no consequence and the question of social equality, he argued that the lack of education, and the absence of proof of the quality of intellect were the real obstacles for the African American community. This is 1876. That is the real obstacle . Civil war ended a little over ten years go. That is real obstacle . The only way to overcome these obstacles, according to henry flipper, was to education, not through a war of the races. Equal rights he continued must be a consequent approving was equality through education. On the other hand, Charles Youngs approach to social equality and racial uplift was nuanced. A little bit more dynamic and he did not reject the importance of education because he is an educator. Like i said, he is a humanities person. He will teach foreign language, latin, et cetera, at wilberforce. And, he is going to not respond to or say anything about youngs bio, but his actions speak to his idea of what flipper was advocating in 1876. Young understood duty on leadership and advocacy were such a component of the fight for racial equality. His journey was marked by his tireless commitment to advocating for justice within and beyond the military. So, i want you to think about this idea of racial uplift. When Charles Young would sign his people would mail out the head shots, people wanted to buy his head shots. He would sign them for race and country. That is how he conceived of his service. An amazing biography of Charles Young, called for race and country. Everyone should read it. When looking at what he is doing, this is him on top of his horse. Dolly. A little boy, he is saluting him. This is a young man who was living in jim crow america. He is seeing a black officer in uniform, proud to have his salute. Young is like, that is a good one. His students often talked about, he was very strict. He was going to drill you until you got it right. When we think about seeing this , with this young man, with experience, looking up, after being told how inferior blacks are, they are subhuman, all of these things being barraged at him and their psyche, that trauma, the idea of racial uplift and saying, there is nothing wrong with being a son or daughter of africa. Nothing wrong with having dark skin, nothing wrong with being black. He writes a book, he writes a book called wait a minute. I cannot find it. Military, race, i can remember. But he writes a book can you edit that out . Nevermind. [ laughter ] he writes a book that examines the various, essentially, military prowess of the various races. Globally. It is his response to the scientific pseudoscience, eugenics, pseudoscience of saying that africanamericans were a sub species, therefore, they are not good soldiers. In fact, according to the navy, the best type of sailor and soldier was a white male from iowa or nebraska. Ohio did not make the list. I would be offended. [ laughter ] we are landlocked, they are, too, how are they a better sailor . Young, this is his play right side of him, he says, if you look up the science you are using, the best type of soldier would be someone of mixed race. The argument made by white scientists, africanamericans make great foot soldiers but not great leaders. Whites make the best leaders. Would not it be pertinent to say , combine the two and you have the perfect soldier. This is young writing as an active duty officer, publishing this book in 1907. Thinking, he writes a play in 1910 about his idol, who beat three empires in the haitian revolution. One of his first jobs outside of the United States was to serve as the military attachi to haiti. He will map and write the Haitian Creole language book for military intelligence. This is what the marines use when they invade haiti from 1914 to 1932. They use his maps. They use his reports. Right . But, young is an Intelligence Officer he is going to come in not only serve in haiti, but going to go to liberia. Liberia was very afraid of being colonized. Liberia is the colony founded by the american colonization society. This was where they resettled a lot of people, people of african descent from the u. S. To liberia so that they can go to africa. The liberian government, under the leadership of the descendents of African Americans, pleads with Theodore Roosevelt to send some sort send a black officer to train the liberian military to defend themselves. When they had a white officer who was training the military but that officer tried to usurp the government and take over they are like, we dont trust this. We want to make sure we get someone who can we believe they will be better. So, you know, Charles Young is suggested. His friend, booker t. Washington , will campaign on his behalf to get him to be the attachi to liberia. Young jumps at the opportunity. He, like i said, the best friend of w. E. B. Du bois. W. E. B. Du bois is the originator of penn africanism. Panafricanism. Young becomes a strong advocate of a panafrican identity. When he goes to liberia, he is very clear, the United States needs to support and protect liberia from the possibility of ever being colonized. It needs to maintain its independence. Because of his term and his service, helping to reshape the Liberian Frontier force, he is going to get the metal, from the naacp, for his reorganization, training, and diplomacy in liberia. It is because of youngs work that booker t. Washington is able to open a school in liberia. Monrovia. Up until the, i want to say, 1940s and 1950s, the Liberian Frontier force was always advised by an africanamerican officer. Young started this. He did it twice. The liberian government of today , a few years ago, they reactivated their relationship with the u. S. Military. Now, the Michigan National guard works with the liberian military. A part of what theyre doing currently is sending over black women ncos to teach the liberian soldiers how to take orders from women. [ laughter ] they are like, do i have to listen to her . They are like, yes. Black woman drill sergeant is apparently a tough lady when looking at youngs life, he is also, when he returns from liberia, he gets the spin guard metal, he is going to ask his soldiers to contribute to the antilynching fund. They do, happily, regularly contribute money to fight lynching in the United States. When he gave a speech at stanford, he is going to criticize this idea of accommodation is education, this idea of not standing up or advocating to black civil rights. So, young is doing all this, by the way, a great fighter in the field. He serves with general pershing in the hunt for pancho villa, saving pershing when they got lost in mexico. Mexicans did not appreciate the u. S. Government coming into the territory. They oftentimes would give them bad intel. Several times, it just happens, they get lost, in the middle of the desert, and young has to come to the rescue of pershing. One of the things that pershing does, recommends young for promotion. He supports young becoming a general. He is impressed with his leadership in the field. So, then i say that he is going to influence a generation of black officers. Not just because he is a great educator but because they follow him in the field. The first set of black officers who are going to graduate from ft. Des moines during world war i, a good portion will be black ncos from the four black regiments, the Buffalo Soldiers , they will come in contact with young. As well as about 20 or 30 of his officers, students he trained at wilberforce will graduate. He is mentoring and shaping like military leadership. Unfortunately, during world war i, he thought he was due for another promotion. He is going to get promoted to colonel, but, recommended that he get discharged for health reasons. This does not sit well with young. Right . He is going to push back against the idea of having to be forced out. Because he thought his fitness was good. What did he do . He was like, i am going to do a performative protest, prest by riding the 500 miles from ohio to washington, d. C. And here, you have young when he arrives, secretary of war newtons office. Illustration from the 1970s, ebony magazine, young with emmitt j. Scott who is continuing the legacy of booker t. Washington. In thinking about the dismissal of Charles Young, it creates a lot of bad press in the African American community because they are outraged at his dismissal. They lead a campaign to get him reinstated. Because they are like you want us to fight, wilson wants an all volunteer military for world war i, africanamericans are like, we dont want to serve without black officers. We want Charles Young to be one of our generals. There is the Serious Campaign that causes problems for Michael Wilson and administration because , what they dont want is negative publicity. What happens is that, you know, the title, give us charlie young. This will be they are following his journey. Right . From ohio to washington, d. C. , him and his favorite horse, dolly. Charlie and dolly. This is a serious protest in the community. So much so that wilson has to do something. What do they do . They recall young. But they put him with the Ohio National guard. To train other officers. He eagerly does it because he knows these people will go to fight in world war i, or the great war, excuse me, he needs to prepare them. Well, the war is over. The war is over in 1918. He did his ride in 1917. This is the official itinerary from his trip. I thought it was so cool that the national africanAmerican History museum in washington, d. C. Has this. Has this document. It is outlining his entire trip. It is important because, this is what the community is following. They do not have television if they have television, you would have a camera crew following him around. Have you ever seen naked and afraid . Those people are crazy. I can see them, it is dark and he is riding a horse. We are going to stay at hotel. Cameraman would be like, we are not riding a horse. This is something the black community took as a victory. This pressures the Wilson Administration. Secretary of war newton does not agree and they dismiss him after he arrived. However, because of the bad publicity and the pressure, because of the germans are using this in their propaganda, they had to do some sort of concession. They recall him to service in the Ohio National guard. Not in the regular army. Well, after the war is over, they recall him to regular service. He was too sick earlier. Now, be a diplomat again. They send him to liberia again. They send him to do their intelligence gathering on the various governments in africa. On a trip to nigeria, he contracts disease, he passes away in 1922. He gets full military honors in nigeria, but the African American community campaigned for an entire year to bring his body back to the u. S. It goes on a two city tour. He arrives first in new york city. Thousands of people lined the streets to watch his casket go down the street. At his eulogy, in new york, w. E. B. Du bois said, if the United States government retired a sick man, it murdered him by detailing him afterward to africa. God bless colonel youngs sickened soul, but give our souls know best if we let the truth concerning him drop, overlaid with lies. If you ever want to see someone get angry giving a eulogy, go read the eulogy by w. E. B. Du bois of young. Because, this is in 1923, w. E. B. Du bois lives until 1963. He lives a long time. His papers, going back until the 1961, 1962, he still talks about Charles Young he missed his friend. Right . And his eulogy, he goes in and is so angry. He is so angry. Because he felt that the death of young was unnecessary. Uncalled for. The day of his funeral, becomes a National Holiday for African Americans. Charles young day is celebrated for decades after his death on various college campuses. And, his funeral at Arlington National cemetery in 1923 was the largest it had ever seen. Larger than the funeral of the unknown soldier. Only the fourth soldier, at this time, in 1923, the fourth soldier to use the amphitheater for his funeral. When looking at his life and legacy, it is interesting to think that, a descendent of henry flipper , who actually is carrying, in some ways, modeled his leadership style after Charles Young. It is under his tenure that he is promoted posthumously to Brigadier General in 1922. Lloyd austin, who retired as a three star geral, from thomasville, georgia, a descendent of henry flipper , he became an honorary member. Yo, members was Charles Young. Secretary of defense just became his fraternity brother. You look at the policies, right . You look at it, like the regards to flipper. Never was. The person who most honored him was powell, kept a little bust of him on his desk. And when thinking about the dream deferred of Charles Youngs life they have the uniform and everything and they put them next to austin, you know, right next to henry flipper, but, it always strikes, struck me, strikes me as odd to me. When i look at austins life and his career he does not seem like a flipper person. He is a western graduate but in looking at his legacy he seems more to be someone influenced by Charles Young rather than henry flipper. Charles veyoungs life and lega served as a powerful metaphor for the journey of progress. His style, his political activism, leadership, rooted in a deep sense of duty and commitment to racial equality standing to the testament to his enduring human spirit. Youngs journey is a reminder that embracing ones duty in the pursuit of justice, equality, it is not just anace an aspiration but an exclusive future. So, i want to stop here and say thank you all for having me. It has been a true pleasure. And thank you for joining me with the life and impact and moralization of Charles Young, may his legacy continue to inspire us all, to carry the mantle of justice, equality and duty. Thank you university [ applause ] i. We are now open for. We are now open for questions if there are any. Who is the first brave soul . Yes. So you mentioned how he went, young went back to liberia, do you think the government wanted to just get him out of the country on purpose and like, since he was this out spoken figure and they wanted to send him away so he was not as influential. And then he got sickness do you think they had any of these thoughts in their minds, just get rid of him, i suppose . The question is, do i believe that young was purposely sent to die because he was causing too much trouble, too much press. And i know the boys would believe that. And in some ways young when he gave one of his final speeches to the men of the fraternity he laments about going to liberia. He knows that he is not going to come back. But he also is very clear that he is going to do his service. Because he could of retired, he already retired once. But he chooses to go and do his duty because he knows what that represents. I do happening the government . The military was i dont know. It is possible. It would not, i thought about it and i would say that it could be one of the under lying reasons behind it. It was a Wilson Administration and we all know how racist wilson was. He did not appreciate the kind of press that the black community and Charles Young got. So, would he of asked the secretary of defense to do this . Possibly. Was there also still a need for intel in africa because the United States navy is going to protect liberia from invasion and they are invested in maintaining liberias independence . So, it is, it is a winwin for them to get rid of him. And also maintaining their positive relationship in africa. Does that answer your question . All right. Any other questions . Brave soul. Come, get on tv. Yes. [ laughter ] what made you want to study African American military history . I saw it as something that needed to be done. I read a few books that really told a very onesided kind of conversation and what my, like my purpose in ways as a historian is to tell different stories that will reshape narratives. And, when i read some, a few books and i read some of the books about the Buffalo Soldiers i was really, it was, you know, really fascinating because these scholars were like oh, look at what we discovered. There were these heroic black soldiers and they are just forgotten. You and are like who forget them . White people . Because black people did not forget them. Bob marley had a whole song. I mean Buffalo Soldiers. The fact is when thinking about the legacy about it, the black newspapers do not forget. They are publishing about it. They are still doing Charles Young days, they never forget about these people. But when looking at how a lot of, some of the earlier scholars on frank schrubert and William Lecky when they wrote about black soldiers it was as if they were wrestling some found history and therefore really going into the mind of the soldier. I dont write traditional military. I am pureeing for the creation of new subfield of black military history. And because of the aversion that people have and also i am not into battles and who outranked someone. I do like playing call of duty, though. [ laughter ] but and i have played civilization, i liked it, too. But you know, i think that the type of military more of a social historian. So i really want to get into the motive. And what people build out of it. Because, looking at how African Americans construct their service it is different. It always has been different. If we embrace that difference then maybe you can have a totally different type of conversation in relation that you might have a recruitment issue. But, that is what got me into it. Reading books, books contain your world. All right. That is a great question, thank you for asking. Yes. You are on television forever. [ laughter ] so, oftentimes when discussing african American History a lot of times we go over the Civil Rights Movement, political leaders and educational leaders and now military leaders, do you think there is another area that we might be missing that maybe should have more study . Yes. The geospatial studies, black ecology. So, a big part of what some of the soldiers end updoing, for example, they found institutions of higher learning, Lincoln University in jefferson city, missouri was founded by an entire regiment of 67 from the civil war. All right, they created a whole college. It still exists today. They founded town, you look at the, when i talk about the why are black people in minnesota . Well, they create onclaves, enclaves. The world they are incorporating themselves. Black geography, right . For example, one of the largest communities in mexico for example are African Americans why are they leaving . Or you have the consistent need to leave. Is america our home . Can we go somewhere else . Marcus garvey, the voice leads, right, he goes and he leaves when he was invited. He was invited to guana. Former black allensworth, founded allensworth, california. As a place to escape that. So, looking at say black geology these are important in thinking about what are some of the different ways that blacks not only empowered themselves but fought against the oppression without having to pick up a gun or something. So, moving, getting and leaving, the great migration was serious. It changed the Political Landscape of this country, right . Because the white south was wait, why are you all leaving . Really . Why are you leaving . Wilson wrote to the governor of mississippi because he was like stop, the trains are leaving. They are like we got to keep them here. Well, maybe you stop trying to kill them, how about that. And now you look at mississippi. Any way. So, i mean, there is so much when you look at that you can cover so much in regards to civil rights, different types of leaders, the leaders that you dont know about, uncovered this so much. Uncovered history in that you have these you can even take an option of looking at, well, were there really only ever just mas queers or is black selfa real thing in regards to the west, right . And why is there such a large black ex Pack Community in mexico . It goes back to slavery, right . Because, more people fled south than they did north. Because mexico was mexicans would kill the slave captures, so it was a winwin for them. I am just saying. Yes . So, with the passionate memorialization of younger flipper. Yes. What do you think of the memorization of Civil Rights Movement . Because there were people long before Martin Luther king that were going to see gandhi and learning from gandhi followers and then, you know, then they are not known as much. So do you see the need to be a change in that . What do you think . I would actually agree. There is, for example, a part of my research that it is a new field that i discovered a few years ago is the black pacific, right . You have the relationship of African Americans that are stationed in the philippines and japan and long before world war ii, right . In china, African American soldiers are fighting in the boxer rebellion. You do have these lines of communication like you are saying, there are other people going to gond i to study their nonviolent ways. In fact, wallace therman, the person who gandhi to study their nonviolent ways, in fact, wallace therman is going to be heavily influential in dr. Kings journey. He goes there because wallace therman went to gandhi. He talked to trees because he thought about the communal relationship between humans and nature. And, you know, think about lord of the rings all of the elves singing with trees and stuff. But, he was doing it before that, i guess, i dont know. [ laughter ] but i mean, really, i agree with you, right, because, even looking at the different types of movements of resistance, you know, gandhi sets a really, his strategy is militaristic in many ways, it is a militant Nonviolent Movement, understanding what militant Nonviolent Movement is. What we are taught about dr. King is not who he is. He was very militant as a strategy. Like you said, we have to change that narrative. I hope you do your research, i think that is great. It will spark more conversation about pushing back again. You look at how kings legacy has been resurged by people who are misremembering or are like dr. King would be offended. No, i think he would be offended by you. But really understanding, you know, like when i tell my students you know he was a socialist, right . What . What do you mean . He was a socialist . Did you not see the Poor Peoples Campaign . He out lines it. He has two socialists write economic plans for helping to fight poverty in the u. S. It was not a race, it was a poverty for blacks and whites and all poor people. Then he got killed. Not being a conspiracy therist but theorist but, you know. It is obvious that there is a clear message that is trying to be taught in our history, in u. S. History. And it is unfortunate because oftentimes when you tell students in college some of them really are angry. They are like my teacher lied to me . My parents lied . Yes, it is interesting, thank you for that question. Do you think that kind of resurgence of henry flipper, do you think that was because for some people it was, he was less out spoken about issues of race than young was . Do you think that kind of disarming of black figures do you thank might of motivated a rise in kind of remembering him . I do. I think, like i said, this is also, you know, he gets his name cleared. Trust me, there was a fight. Like, it was a High School Teacher who helped lead the fight to clear his name. And, how awesome are High School History teachers by the way, you got to love them. It is a history High School Teacher, his students had a project and pushed and got the flipper family involved and then you have, you know, this is also vietnam, the army restating the image, what are we going to do . This, they are going to exonerate flipper, exonerate the entire regiment that Theodore Roosevelt charged. Only one person left alive. They are like here, here is 25,000. We owe you. He is like, okay. But, i mean, they are going to really push for reshaping their image. We dont see race we only see green. You take the language and rhetoric of young and then you take the fact that for a long time, you know, Collin Powell will be a key figure in the reagan administration, he is going to help design operation urgent sieri, and you are like why is the United States invading . They were not doing anything relating to communism he was trying to push back. He was a socialist. Reagan administration was like no communist. So, you have a very clear his politics aligned with the idea of the we only see green. This is what we are going to support, right . And, you know, like i said, like i said an recall about him recently where someone called him a civil rights leader which is like project number 27. I have to write a new article about the conservative of henry flipper, because no one has. So, i started writing that. Because it is a conversation that is uncomfortable, especially when i talk to thomasville, georgia residents, they really love flipper down there. Well, you know, it is, he is an interesting guy. But i mean, pushing back against, yes, he is a trail blazer. He led a wonderfully extraordinary life but we have to include his politics and he purposely is reacting against the idea and that matters. Any other questions . I was wondering so with flipper he had the, he did not, obviously did not share the point of views with other African Americans i was wondering was his viewpoint held by other middle class African Americans at the time . One of the slides was talking about the middle class black community helped debose a lot and drew support from him but clearly he had a very different position from flipper. So, was flipper like a total out liar or when were others like him in that time period . He is not a total outliar lier. I was telling the Group Earlier he wrote how he was completely opposed to the antilynching legislation, he would be, the best example that i could think of he would call to the category of libertarian today in regards to his views of he does not believe they should be involved in civil rights. Not a lot of African Americans would fall into that category. But there are other black conservatives, booker washington will be a conservative during his period. He is, of course, famously going to be opposed by, you know, Monroe Trotter and he wrote the boston guardian. Famously they are going to talk a lot in the press about booker t. Washington. But flipper is someone who criticizes black soldiers. And after he did that a couple times they stopped printing his little letters, right . There is only so much, what they are not going to do is allow him to be opposed to black soldiers who the soldiers they are criticizing are the soldiers in houston who, with the houston uprising that ends up being the Largest Court martial in history and them killing White Police Officers that were harassing, in fact, the whole situation happened because a white Police Officer was assaulting a black woman and a black soldier intervened to protect her and he gets attacked. So, flipper comes out and criticizes them. The entire black population, supporting him, showing him love, and here he come, they are disgraceful. That was the last letter he wrote that got published. So it is an interesting dynamic in thinking about black conservatives. You have black soldier in world war i but his conservatism is not the same. Yeah. Unique case. So, in your experience as an educator, how do you approach those conversations with students about like their own reconciliation with what they thought they knew and what, i hate to use the word backlash but do you expect a reaction and then what is your reaction to their reaction. One thing that i encourage is civil conversation. So, their reaction, you know, i want them to fully articulate their argument. And then i ask them to really think about what they are saying, right . So, you know, when you have students who are coming, for example, when i have students write a, do research on and have them write on the china exclusion act, right . Most of them never heard of it. They did not even know that there was a period where the u. S. Banned in the 1940s, chinese immigration. And so when you have them, they try to relate it to modern day immigration issues you are like, well, so, you have a problem with immigration so, lets talk about this because this is also, this is 1882 and you are having this upsurge in immigration from everywhere else in the u. S. Ial ellis island, they are focusing on one asian group, chinese, initially they are not stopping the japanese, they are only doing the chinese, and this is purely racial politics. You walk them through. What i try to do is walk them through. Think it out, talk it through. Also i, you know, students dont challenge me much not because i am part of something it is just once i walk it through and they see what happens when you walk it through they are just like well, that makes sense. A lot of times what has happened with students who are distraught from what they are learning in my class is that it makes them want to learn more. So i am appreciative. That is one thing that i love about being a college professor. Is the thirst for knowledge that happens where they are like i am going to research as much as possible to prove you wrong. And i am like, yes go do it. Go look and prove me wrong. I want you to. I dont mind, go bring me some credible sources, not a tiktok video, but credible sources to back up your argument and i have no problem conceding if i am wrong. It is interesting the conversations. They go and do the research. They want to talk about it. Some of them end up being history majors. I did what i was supposed to do. 10 years, yes. [ laughter ] but i mean, this is so you can, one thing, i like to make it light, going to make it as light as possible, right . When i do have to talk about Difficult Conversations i always give a trigger warning. But, i am going to engage with Difficult Conversations, i do not shy from it. I want to because a big problem is that a lot of times when people gauge the conversation they dont know how to engage civilly. So, that is part of learning in the classroom. So, you know, i think that is part of my responsibility as a professor is showing them how to engage Difficult Conversations in a calm, even it has to be a little light, so be it, but you have to push them out of their comfort zones, that is the only way you can grow, it is growing pains, i tell them at the beginning of the class. You are going to hear things that you will not like, it will make you uncomfortable but it will make you, you will grow, you will learn. So. I hope i answered your question. Yes . Covering youngs service, especially service with folks like Collin Powell, where do you address African American service where it might not be wanted by the country. They feel like they want to provide something for a nationing that does not want it and where does that fall on your research . Well, a big part of it is when you think about the service of African Americans i like to go back to a quote from david walkers appeal. And in that quote david walker says this country is more ours than it is theirs. And during the civil war prior to the allowance of African Americans that served in the military, there were debates in black churches, right . About if they should serve. Brian taylor writes a good book about this. One thing they talk about this is, is this country, this country is ours more so than it is anyone elses, this is how they concede of their service, it is not they are serving america it is also serving something that, one, they are going to put a say in liberating other black people but also this is what you do for the country you live in. And, so, they may not you have the situation i think vietnam really changed things with regard how people perceive service. But, African American service to the, in the military did not really decline after vietnam, it pretty much stayed the same. And, it went up. So, yes, you have the changed perceptions of, you know, there is not our war, this is someone elses war. But right now what you are getting is the other side of it. One, i can benefit from this service if i just do this amount of time, i benefit greatly from x, y, z. Lookinga the from a perspective how does it benefit me and my family and a big part of that, also, getting job skills training and it opens a lot of doors. So, this is going back to that original i big part of why blacks served right after the civil war in that military service opens doors. You think about the post office, right . For a very long time it is one of the easier pipelines in regards to African American veterans, they go and work at the post office. And, it is a service, still, and great benefits and they stay there for the whole time. They dont have other jobs. And the it is, it is very interesting when you look at the war at the post office. I dont understand it. The fight to defund the post office flvment is a high number of African Americans and all of a sudden we want to defund the post office, postal office, this happens after vietnam. Okay. But, postal service, postmaster generals they were fighting for that. It is all kinds of intersections, right . I hope that answered your question. How are we doing on time . Okay. These are great questions, thank you all, i love it. [ applause ] if youre enjoying American History tv, sign up on the qr code on your screen to see lectures in history, american artifacts, the precedency and more. Sign up for the ahtv news letter today and watch American History tv every weekend or any time on line at cspan. Org history. Book tv, featuring leading authors discussing their latest nonfunction books, looking at Research Done by government agents and the Scientific Community in the search for alien life. 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